Database Users

What's the best development language for XDA II

Greetings from Ireland,
About a year or two I did some development for PocketPC 2002 using eVB [no sniggering ] but now want to start dabbeling in PPC2003. What options do I have as far as development enviornments go. I'd prefare not to have to fork out over €1000 for Visual Studio .NET but don't mind paying €100 or €200 for a decent package.
I'd also prefare not to use eVC4++ but will as a last resort.
So basically.... What tools to you guys and/or girls use and what do you think of them?
Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I couldn't find it if it was.
Regards
Keith Burke
Dublin, Ireland.

I use C++ and EVC4.
This stays, in my opinion, the best way to develop application for embedded platform. The c++ allows you to optimize correctly and to have little footprints ...
EVB must be, of course, forgotten as it is slow and requires runtime.
.Net is a way but as you tell, you have to pay the dev environment ... and it is (still in my opinion ) more big and less easy to optimize...
It also depends on your application...

The best?
Of course - Visual Studio .NET

I use Visual Studio and .Net

.net is not a language it's a platform
.net can be program'd from both vb, asp, c++, and c#
personaly i would never use anything else then c++ or maybe c#
but of cause people are difference

I've uploaded GCC compiler which can build console/GUI WinCE applications, and DLLs:
http://mamaich.kasone.com/fr_pocket.htm
There are 2 versions: Windows (needs CygWin installed) and native PocketPC (idea and name is taken from PGCC project, but we use different compiler versions and runtime). There are some examples in pgcc.rar (dll, console and gui apps, SDL example).
I've successfully compiled DosBox, Bochs and several other open-source projects with this compiler.

If you want to do .NET development but don't want to pay take a look at http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/
Jamie

well thats not for pocketpc is it ?
but while we are at it
http://www.go-mono.com/
if you want to develop c# using .net for linux
but they have a version which works on windows aswell

As long as you stick to the compact framework, any .NET app will run on the PocketPC even if it was aimed at the desktop . . . . .
Jamie

Having said that I've just tried making an app in Sharp Develop and it doesn't seem to want to run on my XDAII.
I have made a desktop app in Visual Studio .NET and run it on the XDAII before so I'm sure it is possible!
Jamie

also have a look to NS basic
www.nsbasic.com

I use C++ and eVC4, on top of it, I use WTL7.1
Much easier to program using WTL then native win32 api and without the trouble of MFC

development environment?

hi
i was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of some decent but free development tools for wm5
thanks

embedded visual c++
you can also get free compilers like gcc and a .net compiler which run on the pocketpc itself
but it's hardly en ide

Depends on what language you want to code. For instance I couldn't find a decent assembly IDE yet (free or not). For C++/C# (managed and unmanaged) VS2005 is probably still the best. And the epxress versions can be obtained for free. Integration of embedded stuff would have to be done manually, I guess.

well i prefer programming in c/c++ so are there any free tools/IDEs for it?
don't i have to pay for embedded vc++ or is there a free version that lets me program for wm5?

oh and i downloaded the express c++ but when i want to instal the wm5 sdk it tells me it needs visual studio 2005

PSPad is awsome, and free.
Regards,
Jason

hey thanks for the reply but that's not for windows mobile 5 development
i really need something free for windows mobile 5 development
if anyone could help i would appreciate it
thanks

Ok little clarification:
a) You don't need WM5 SDK to develop apps that will run on WM5 and use its special features. You will just have to work a little harder and use LoadLibrary and GetProcAdress for functions not supported in WM2003. Also you can manually unpack the SDK installation and use the binaries and header files (this is VJ's advice I have yet to test it).
b) There is no version of eVC for WM5 because MS switched to Visual Studio. The express version does not support mobile development in any way. I always use eVC 4 this not only works fine for WM5 apps but also insures backward compatibility and saves me keeping two separate projects for one app.

I agree with levenum, as ever.
You don't NEED VS2005 if you're only developing in C++ (which you should be). I don't think VS2005 offers enough over EVC for me to spend a gazillion $$ on it as a hobby programmer. However, you can get VS2005 on trial for free from MS if you feel the need to try it out.
Also - EVC only requires a small number of mbs of space (great to stick on a USB). VS2005 is > 1gb from memory
V

thank you for your replies
i will do as you suggested
thanks

one last question:
does anyone know if there is an SDL sdk for wm5?
if not then any links to wm5 programming tutorials?

wajih.boukaram said:
one last question:
does anyone know if there is an SDL sdk for wm5?
if not then any links to wm5 programming tutorials?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here
Regards,
Jason

Hi,
There is an open source IDE for .net that supports (v2.2.1 only) the compact framework 2.0 : http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/.
I'm using it for windows coding and it's a very good soft.
Regards,
Imer

SDK

Noob question: Does HTC have an SDK for their devices, or do they just rely on the WM6 SDK?
And on a related note...
I'm just starting to get into VB programming for WM (specifically, for my Tilt/Kaiser). Any advice on how best to get started? Stupid beginner mistakes to avoid? Best sites for finding sample code?
Thanks all!
-Florp

There is no special SDK form HTC devices.
In fact you do not even have to use WM 6 SDK specifically, programs compiled with previous SDKs will work as well.
Here is a site to start with: www.pocketpcdn.com
Personally, VB is not a language I recommend for WM based devices. Aside from a fact that you need the expansive VS 2005 (full version) to program in it, .NET compact framework makes for slower apps and on devices pre WM 6 it takes 5 MB to install CF 2.
Also, you can not use it to write things like today plugins and keyboards and accessing other system functions is a problem.

Thanks for the info!
If not VB, how about C#? Is that a well-supported language on WM?
-Florp

Well C# is a bit better than VB syntax vise but it suffers from all the same problems I listed before:
Need VS 2005
Need .NET CF2 -which is slow and built in only in WM 6
Difficulty accessing native APIs.
My personal recommendation is C++. If you are really interested in programming and don't know it - learn it.
Why?
MS has a free tool to compile for WM devices: Embedded visual C++ 4
You can write anything with it and access any system API directly with no problem.
Native codes runs faster and is more memory officiant because no supporting framework needs to be loaded.
Of course it all really depends on what you want to do. If you just want to make a quick simple app for you own use VB or C# may be more than enough provided you can get you hands on VS 2005.

Developing WM6 without CompactFramework??

Hi @ll codejunkies
i want to start developing/programming without the .NET CompactFramework for our WM5/WM6 Devices..
Till now, i used Visual Studio 2005, but i think with .NET the program is only "interpreted". Now i want to compile a program that don´t need the Framework for .NET.
So my question: Which Programming Languages are available to develop this "real" exe-Programs?? and what GUIs and Compilers i can use for it?
thanxx 2 @ll

The only real option without using runtime libraries such as the .NET framework is C++.

Is therefor a SDK?

You use the same SDK you were using all along. Infact, you can even use the same Visual Studio you were using all along. Just select Visual C++ on project type, and select smart device solution, and you're ready to go! . You'll have to have extensive use of the win32 api to get started though. The basics are EXACTLY the same as the desktop version.

on the microsoft Homepage i found out, that the SKD for WM6 only support .NET???
how can i then develop and compile then to native code, without use .NET Framework????

nEuDy said:
on the microsoft Homepage i found out, that the SKD for WM6 only support .NET???
how can i then develop and compile then to native code, without use .NET Framework????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SDK supports C++ as well. Visit the MSDN site for technical documentation.

nuEdy: It`s not true, SDK has tools and documetation for managed and of course native development.

As mentioned above. Embedded C++ version 4.0. Free download from the Microsoft website. Compiles for the WM 2003 SE platform SDK included in this download. Without .NET you will have to use the standard WIN32 application model, responding to WM_XXXXXX messages via WIN32 API calls. If you haven't done this before, you will have a long hard slog to master it, but the results are worth it. Start by looking at the code created by the hello world app until you understand what the hell is going on. Release .EXEs can be run directly under the WM6 SDK as this is a true ARM emulator, not the half way x86 code used by the 2003 SE SDK.
Stick to two menubar items and WM6 will display them either side of the keyboard icon as per WM6 Apps. More than two and the menubar appears in WM2002/3 mode.

Newbie Guide to C++

I need help - I want to start writing programs for my Tilt. Looking through the posts it seems the C++ is the way to go. I found a bunch of nice tutorials on the web on how to program in C++ but not now to write a program for a pocket pc.
Specifically I need help with which programs to download.
Im looking for a list like this of exactly what I need to get
1. Microsoft embedded Visual C++ 4.0.
2. Microsoft embedded Visual C++ SP4
3. Microsoft pocket pc 2003 sdk.msi
4. Microsoft Windows CE 5.0 Device Emulator
or what ever
Thanks I tried to figure this out on my own but got frustrated after installing like 7 different programs. Seems like you should only need 1 program but it seems like you need to download a bunch.
Also with the Embedded Visual C++ program I dont see where to enter your code - like open workspace or something?

ronschaefer said:
I need help - I want to start writing programs for my Tilt. Looking through the posts it seems the C++ is the way to go. I found a bunch of nice tutorials on the web on how to program in C++ but not now to write a program for a pocket pc.
Specifically I need help with which programs to download.
Im looking for a list like this of exactly what I need to get
1. Microsoft embedded Visual C++ 4.0.
2. Microsoft embedded Visual C++ SP4
3. Microsoft pocket pc 2003 sdk.msi
4. Microsoft Windows CE 5.0 Device Emulator
or what ever
Thanks I tried to figure this out on my own but got frustrated after installing like 7 different programs. Seems like you should only need 1 program but it seems like you need to download a bunch.
Also with the Embedded Visual C++ program I dont see where to enter your code - like open workspace or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WHAT kind of applications you are trying to write?
Do you need to write a device driver for your PDA?

ronschaefer said:
I need help - I want to start writing programs for my Tilt. Looking through the posts it seems the C++ is the way to go. I found a bunch of nice tutorials on the web on how to program in C++ but not now to write a program for a pocket pc.
Specifically I need help with which programs to download.
Im looking for a list like this of exactly what I need to get
1. Microsoft embedded Visual C++ 4.0.
2. Microsoft embedded Visual C++ SP4
3. Microsoft pocket pc 2003 sdk.msi
4. Microsoft Windows CE 5.0 Device Emulator
or what ever
Thanks I tried to figure this out on my own but got frustrated after installing like 7 different programs. Seems like you should only need 1 program but it seems like you need to download a bunch.
Also with the Embedded Visual C++ program I dont see where to enter your code - like open workspace or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be able to do it with visual studio and the emulator, im not 100% sure though, I only know a limited amount of Java.
Most phones support .net/C#/Java, so pick a language

What I want to write
Just some fun stuff =
One idea I had is a generic sound simulator, tie buttons to different sound - .wav files; animal sounds, machine sounds, phasor blasts, drum kit, theme music like - http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/illuminated/a5bf/
I want to have it look nice too with decent graphics.

i suggest to use Visual Studio 2005 or 2008.
It's simplest way to start (and continue) to write programs.
Both native and NET technologies are supported. C++ and C# available.
Both VS versions are coming with integrated Device Emulator with WM5(VS2005) and WM6(VS2008) images for PDA/PDAPhone/SP and remote debugger for real PDA/PDAPhone/SP devices.

If you are using VS2005/2008. Download the latest Windows Mobile 6 SDK (Standard and Pro) for the best Emulation.
Ta
Dave

but c# only works with .net
where c++ works with win32(native) microMFC(Native) and .net
more info can be found
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=380069&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382995&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=226412&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=336251&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=305926&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=302548&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=228043&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=317913&highlight=programming
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=237932&highlight=programming

yes, С# is for NET only. This language appeared together with NET technology as alternative to Java after breakup with SUN
C# is closer to BASIC than C++. I, personally, don't recommend C#. Ths "strange" language is for lazy people. Almost nothing left of C++ and its ideology.

Visual Studio 2008 Pro trial version
Thanks for you advice - i deleted all that embedded C++ stuff - was way too confusing, must have had like 8 programs installed and still was not working - I like the idea of just 3 things the visual studio and the 2 WM6 SDKs
Im going to try the visual studio 2008 - there is a trial version of it for 90 days
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/products/aa700831.aspx
Would i be better off with the 2005 version as Im using Xp not Vista on my main computer. Should I get the Try Visual Studio "Team System" 2008 - Trial Software or just stick with the regular one i downloaded?
I also downloaded the standard and professional WM6 SDKs
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...745-88EF-3D48091A390B&displaylang=en#filelist

I used embedded visual tools in the past (3 and 4). Be aware that you cannot use the WM5 SDK with eVC, you must use Visual Studio for that. The latest thing usable with eVC is the WM2003 SDK, as far as I know. Also, the emulator handling in eVC was quite sluggish and buggy. When I switched to VS2005, it was like a deliverance to me. Also, the help system in VS is a blessing. *g*
Though I used Delphi's VCL in the past, I would never freely touch such a thing on restricted hardware such as in PDAs. Hence, .NET, MFC and of course *cough* Java *cough* are out of the question. I'm a pure C++ writer. The progs are nicely small and fast. And there are always alternatives to the things I can't use because of that: for instance instead of MFC CStrings I got acquainted with STL library's strings. There's also ATL which supposedly can be used instead of MFC for GUI programming, but when I looked for it some years back I found only very little information about that.
Happy coding.

Is it true that you can only develop WinMo C++ in VS Pro?
I read on the Microsoft marketplace that the standard edition dosnt support mobiles..
are there any alternatives (C++ only please..)

yes they only support through pro... but you can get it for free through dreamspark if you are a student

joel2009 said:
yes they only support through pro... but you can get it for free through dreamspark if you are a student
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
damn, I am a student but my uni isnt listed
I asked one of the admins and they are looking into getting on the list
But it might be too late coz its my last year..

Mic159 said:
damn, I am a student but my uni isnt listed
I asked one of the admins and they are looking into getting on the list
But it might be too late coz its my last year..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good news. My uni isn't listed either. It is a simple matter of verifying your student status on journey ed. I'm glad I could help with this because it turns out that I could get all the dreamspark software through my school's MSDNAA program anyways.