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I apologize if there is already a thread like this, but the search wasnt working.. I know what i can do with my phone once it is rooted, I am just interested in what happens tot he actual phone. I could be wrong, but once i root it isnt it always possible to tell that i rooted it even if i unroot it so therefor all warantees are voided? sorry if im being unclear, i cant think of another way to explain it haha.
The K-Zoo Kid said:
I apologize if there is already a thread like this, but the search wasnt working.. I know what i can do with my phone once it is rooted, I am just interested in what happens tot he actual phone. I could be wrong, but once i root it isnt it always possible to tell that i rooted it even if i unroot it so therefor all warantees are voided? sorry if im being unclear, i cant think of another way to explain it haha.
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Click to collapse
The language on the "warranty void" screen says that unlocking the bootloader "may" void your warranty. On the Nexus One, HTC usually honored the warranty if the issue was with anything hardware related and could not have been the result of software tampering. Granted, that's them and this is Samsung.
Further, unless there is something hidden in the system files that counts the number of times you unlock the bootloader, you can always relock it prior to sending it in for repair with fastboot oem lock.
unremarked said:
The language on the "warranty void" screen says that unlocking the bootloader "may" void your warranty. On the Nexus One, HTC usually honored the warranty if the issue was with anything hardware related and could not have been the result of software tampering. Granted, that's them and this is Samsung.
Further, unless there is something hidden in the system files that counts the number of times you unlock the bootloader, you can always relock it prior to sending it in for repair with fastboot oem lock.
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Click to collapse
So there is a way to kind of undo the root without them knowing? THanks a lot btw. I figured it was something like this.
The K-Zoo Kid said:
So there is a way to kind of undo the root without them knowing? THanks a lot btw. I figured it was something like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unlocking the bootloader and rooting are two different things
jblade1000 said:
unlocking the bootloader and rooting are two different things
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Click to collapse
Ahh i have no idea what unlocking the bootloader does then.
The K-Zoo Kid said:
Ahh i have no idea what unlocking the bootloader does then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a nutshell, unlocking the bootloader means you will be allowed to flash non-Google/custom files to the system partition and more or less enables superuser access(aka root). Once thats done, then you "root" the device, push the Superuser.apk which will enable the rooted apps. Please check out the rooted section of my stickied FAQ for more detail on how to do this if you decide to. There are two great threads I link to.
Once you lock the bootloader, you lose access to the system partition and superuser I believe which effectively unroots it.
unremarked said:
In a nutshell, unlocking the bootloader means you will be allowed to flash non-Google/custom files to the system partition and more or less enables superuser access(aka root). Once thats done, then you "root" the device, push the Superuser.apk which will enable the rooted apps. Please check out the rooted section of my stickied FAQ for more detail on how to do this if you decide to. There are two great threads I link to.
Once you lock the bootloader, you lose access to the system partition and superuser I believe which effectively unroots it.
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Click to collapse
So basically if you want to do any sort of mods, flash roms, etc. you need to unlock the bootload and root. Thanks a lot for explaining that. I think i understand it now, but just to clarify, if i unlock the bootloader and root will i be able to get the phone back to stock without samsung knowing that i rooted/unlock the bootloader?
The K-Zoo Kid said:
So basically if you want to do any sort of mods, flash roms, etc. you need to unlock the bootload and root. Thanks a lot for explaining that. I think i understand it now, but just to clarify, if i unlock the bootloader and root will i be able to get the phone back to stock without samsung knowing that i rooted/unlock the bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, to mod/flash roms you need to unlock the bootloader. It's possible that sometime down the road someone may develop a method of gaining root access on the phone without touching it, but it's unlikely given the fact that we can both unlock and lock the bootloader very easily.
Right now, the answer is... more or less. If you make a NAND backup in Clockwork Recovery/Rom manager of your stock ROM, you can restore back to that, fastboot flash the closest thing we have currently to the stock recovery(check development section for this), then relock the bootloader. This will give the phone all appearances of being stock. Unless Samsung has something deep in the system files tracking the number of times you've unlocked/locked(which I doubt, since I'm sure such a system would have been found by now), you should be good to go.
Most people who have returned the phone to Best Buy have noted that they don't even power on the device or check to see if the bootloader is unlocked or if there's a custom recovery on there. But your mileage may vary.
Interesting stuff. I was under the impression that once clockworkmod is flashed there is no way to remove it at this time.
Reading this thread I'm guessing and hoping this is not the case?
I had clockworkmod installed but used rom manager to flash the 2.3.1 update and i've now got the stock bootloader back. I guess the ota update does the same? It would seem that getting back to stock is pretty easy.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
xspyda said:
Interesting stuff. I was under the impression that once clockworkmod is flashed there is no way to remove it at this time.
Reading this thread I'm guessing and hoping this is not the case?
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My apologies, I posted that before I came to the same understanding regarding the stock recovery.
Like the poster above me mentioned there is a NAND backup of stock 2.3.1 you could restore to which has the stock recovery.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Thanks for the clarification. I'll do some more reading in the dev section
Thanks a lot, this really helped me out a lot. I will proceed to rooting
So, just want to make sure I have this straight... You unlock the bootloader, load custom recovery, SU, and now phone is rooted. If you lock the bootloader, you lose root?
For me, I'm not big on custom roms since I just don't have time to keep things up to date or participate in the bug process, but I do like to maintain backups with Titanium (my primary reason for rooting). So by locking the bootloader down I will not be able to use Titanium. Furthermore, unlocking the bootloader wipes the device. So is there a reason one would not want to keep the bootloader unlocked? Have I completely misunderstood the system?
I am looking into rooting my Nexus S so I can install an ICS ROM. This is my first time rooting so got a question.
How will OTA updates work for me? Will the ICS update just work or will I have to in root to get the official OTA update?
Sry if this has been asked before couldn't find a clear answer.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Don't do OTAs. Any update released by Google or your manufacturer will be released here, rooted, within hours.
If you take an OTA you will lose root and could even find your phone locked again (as unlikely as that is with the NS, better safe than sorry. Ask the EVO users who took the GB OTA )
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Rooting requires flashing custom recovery
OTA requires stock recovery to work properly
So if your phone has custom recovery the OTA will not work.
Alright, thanks alot for the quick responses guys.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Once the ota is downloaded.....
* Put the zip on sdcard
* Reboot into custom recovery
* Manually flash it
* Directly after that, in the same recovery session, flash latest superuser zip
* Wipe cache
* Reboot
I run stock, so i'll add my two cents into this conversations. A few key points:
OTA's will NOT lock the boot loader
OTA's will work with CWM installed (The OTA will however remove CWM and needs to be manually applied)
OTA's will remove root access (the permissions on the binary get changed)
I have never seen an OTA on XDA that was pre-rooted. i have seen ROM packages that incorporate the OTA that are pre-rooted (installing these usually means a wipe of the device is needed)
if you replace the ROM on the phone, you will not get OTA updated. you must remain mostly stock to obtain them.
Custom kernels or custom google apps on stock roms will cause the OTA update to fail, however you will notified that the update is available.
I hope this answers your questions.
Good points.
What i do in order to maintain the full software (removing system apps, any system changes) is change the permissions of whatever i dont want to "000"
This will allow the verifying of OTA to flash.
snandlal said:
Good points.
What i do in order to maintain the full software (removing system apps, any system changes) is change the permissions of whatever i dont want to "000"
This will allow the verifying of OTA to flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This does not always work, such as installing the "Black" version of gmail over top the original, the world-wide version of navigation or using market enabler to change the prop.build file. any of these changes will cause the OTA signature to fail.
Though if you are simply removing a system app, then yes, that would work well.
Also to be noted and this just occurred to me, if the OTA is a full ROM version, then the signature won't matter and it will just install. For ICS, this is what i'm expecting.
I'm on the fence about rooting. I know there are advantages like custom ROMs and added features, but I'm somewhat of a newb at this. While the instructions (for the Mac) seem simple enough, I always feel like something inevitably goes wrong or there's some variable I've either overlooked or don't understand that screws things up.
I definitely don't want to brick my phone.
I don't even know what I'm asking in my post, but I guess... what are some advantages of rooting? And if I root, is it fully reversible?
I'm also confused by some of the terminology. What is clockwork recovery? Is that a sort of ROM? I keep seeing that phrase every time I read instructions. Likewise, what's a bootloader? What's fastboot? Also, what's a kernel?
And after I root (as you can see, I am really tempted to), what happens next? How do I choose which ROM works for me? Is it a matter of flashing them and trying each of them out?
I'm afraid of entering the world of root, but I want to. Advice? Does it matter what baseband, or kernel or build number I have?
I'm on Android 2.3.6
Matridom said:
I run stock, so i'll add my two cents into this conversations. A few key points:
OTA's will NOT lock the boot loader
I hope this answers your questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1145056
I know it's not likely, particularly with this phone, but it can happen. I maintain that if you're going to go through the process of unlocking your phone and putting a rooted ROM on it that you might as well wait for a modified OTA ROM to get posted by a trusted dev before just installing what the carrier hands out to you.
I guess maybe I should have said "re-lock"?
onthecouchagain said:
I'm on the fence about rooting. I know there are advantages like custom ROMs and added features, but I'm somewhat of a newb at this. While the instructions (for the Mac) seem simple enough, I always feel like something inevitably goes wrong or there's some variable I've either overlooked or don't understand that screws things up.
I definitely don't want to brick my phone.
I don't even know what I'm asking in my post, but I guess... what are some advantages of rooting? And if I root, is it fully reversible?
I'm also confused by some of the terminology. What is clockwork recovery? Is that a sort of ROM? I keep seeing that phrase every time I read instructions. Likewise, what's a bootloader? What's fastboot? Also, what's a kernel?
And after I root (as you can see, I am really tempted to), what happens next? How do I choose which ROM works for me? Is it a matter of flashing them and trying each of them out?
I'm afraid of entering the world of root, but I want to. Advice? Does it matter what baseband, or kernel or build number I have?
I'm on Android 2.3.6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, let's clear a few things up here.
CWM or ClockWorkMod is a custom recover that can be installed on the phones. This step is needed because the default recovery on the nexus does not allow for updates to be installed that are unsigned. CWM does, so it's a necessary step to installing the SU binary (aka root your phone) or installing custom ROMs
The bootloader is the basic system on your phone that reacts to the power on and hands over operations to Android. The equivalent in the PC world would be a BIOS.
fastboot is a utility that is provided by google that allows you to send commands to the bootloader and direct it's operations. It's needed to unlock the bootloader (so you can replace parts of it.. like recovery with CWM)
Interestingly enough, you can boot your phone to a custom recovery WITHOUT replacing your existing stock recovery by using fastboot.
Rooting your phone is simply installing and providing the proper rights to the SU binary to allow you to have full administrative rights to the phone, the superuser application is almost always bundled with it as it allows for a form of control as to what applications can use root access. Rooting your phone allows you to install some very interesting application, most popular are titanium backup (let's you back up app data and restore them after a reset) and removing advertising (adfree/adaway or it's like) Root can also be used by some applications that allow you to "cheat" at games.
rooting your phone is reversable, though not always the easiest to do. With the stock ROMS, it's fairly easy, you just re-apply the latest OTA and it will kill Root access on your device.
When it comes to custom ROMs the vast majority come pre-rooted to save you the hassel of doing it yourself.
On other phones where the bootloader remains locked, you have to use an exploit to gain root access, this then allows you to modify the OS and install custom roms and CWM while keeping the bootloader locked. Since the Nexus line can be unlocked, it's not needed.
Please note, root access is NOT required to install a custom ROM.
---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------
MaxCarnage said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1145056
I know it's not likely, particularly with this phone, but it can happen. I maintain that if you're going to go through the process of unlocking your phone and putting a rooted ROM on it that you might as well wait for a modified OTA ROM to get posted by a trusted dev before just installing what the carrier hands out to you.
I guess maybe I should have said "re-lock"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a link to a non-nexus phone. The question here is in regards to the nexus device and i believe my statement stands 100% true. Since it's a self proclaimed "newby" asking questions, i don't want to confuse the post with un-needed and non-relevant information.
Matridom, wow thanks. That clarifies a few things.
So, you say root access isn't required to flash custom ROMs? Let's say for example, I want to flash an ICS ROM, or even a ROM that allows me to have Backlight Notifications?
I don't need root? If I don't need root, how do I flash those ROMs?
Matridom said:
That's a link to a non-nexus phone. The question here is in regards to the nexus device and i believe my statement stands 100% true. Since it's a self proclaimed "newby" asking questions, i don't want to confuse the post with un-needed and non-relevant information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure why it's so invalid to advise that he wait for someone to post an OTA that has been vetted for those of us who have unlocked our phones; I respect your opinion (even if you clearly don't mine), but your statement that I am providing "un-needed" and "non-relevant" information is a bit harsh.
The fact of the matter is that Sprint has had at least one OTA released (for the EVO 4G) that re-locked bootloaders and caused a lot of consternation for people who took the OTA on their unlocked phones and found themselves waiting months for a new exploit to be found. Those who waited had a rooted version of the OTA available on the forums very quickly, so if those who took the OTA had just waited they wouldn't have been stuck.
tl;dr: If you went to the trouble of unlocking your phone in the first place I don't see why you would rush to take an un-vetted update OTA.
MaxCarnage said:
I'm not sure why it's so invalid to advise that he wait for someone to post an OTA that has been vetted for those of us who have unlocked our phones; I respect your opinion (even if you clearly don't mine), but your statement that I am providing "un-needed" and "non-relevant" information is a bit harsh.
The fact of the matter is that Sprint has had at least one OTA released (for the EVO 4G) that re-locked bootloaders and caused a lot of consternation for people who took the OTA on their unlocked phones and found themselves waiting months for a new exploit to be found. Those who waited had a rooted version of the OTA available on the forums very quickly, so if those who took the OTA had just waited they wouldn't have been stuck.
tl;dr: If you went to the trouble of unlocking your phone in the first place I don't see why you would rush to take an un-vetted update OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The key here is that SPRINT released an OTA for a SPRINT branded device. This has zero relevance to updates provided by Google for Nexus devices.
MaxCarnage said:
I'm not sure why it's so invalid to advise that he wait for someone to post an OTA that has been vetted for those of us who have unlocked our phones; I respect your opinion (even if you clearly don't mine), but your statement that I am providing "un-needed" and "non-relevant" information is a bit harsh.
The fact of the matter is that Sprint has had at least OTA released (for the EVO 4G) that re-locked bootloaders and caused a lot of consternation for people who took the OTA on their unlocked phones and found themselves waiting months for a new exploit to be found. Those who waited had a rooted version of the OTA available on the forums very quickly, so if those who took the OTA had just waited they wouldn't have been stuck.
tl;dr: If you went to the trouble of unlocking your phone in the first place I don't see why you would rush to take an un-vetted update OTA.
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Click to collapse
The issue at heart here is that fact that the OTA for the nexus line of phones comes straight from google and are not "tweaked" in any way by the carriers. (exception nexus 4g has additional applications required for CDMA support)
One of the selling features of the nexus phones is the fact that unlocking the bootloader is officially supported.
In regards to other phones getting their bootloader locked, I've experienced first hand the pains of that, having a galaxy S and the 2.3 installing a new bootloader and really screwing things up for me. In those cases, i agree with you whole heartily and to wait for pre-cracked roms that can be installed.
My question to you would be to please show an example of a nexus S getting it's booloader locked due to an OTA update as that is the phone we are discussing.
---------- Post added at 02:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
onthecouchagain said:
Matridom, wow thanks. That clarifies a few things.
So, you say root access isn't required to flash custom ROMs? Let's say for example, I want to flash an ICS ROM, or even a ROM that allows me to have Backlight Notifications?
I don't need root? If I don't need root, how do I flash those ROMs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All you would need to do is to unlock the bootloader, install CWM, then apply the .zip associated with the ROM you wish to install. I would however carefully read the installation instructions for the rom as in some cases, it might be a multi-step process (such as going from a 2.2 rom to a 2.3).
Many ROMS also do not come with the google apps and secondary zip file needs to be applied to get those running (cyanogenMod does this)
I wanted to add, that the process of unlocking your bootloader will erase EVERYTHING on the phone, including the SDcard partition. So make sure you back up anything of importance.
Matridom said:
My question to you would be to please show an example of a nexus S getting it's booloader locked due to an OTA update as that is the phone we are discussing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't provide an example because, as I have already stated, this was a precautionary suggestion only.
I'm not going to get into a debate with you over this; I've made my point and you've made yours. Thanks.
Matridom said:
This does not always work, such as installing the "Black" version of gmail over top the original, the world-wide version of navigation or using market enabler to change the prop.build file. any of these changes will cause the OTA signature to fail.
Though if you are simply removing a system app, then yes, that would work well.
Also to be noted and this just occurred to me, if the OTA is a full ROM version, then the signature won't matter and it will just install. For ICS, this is what i'm expecting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point again but the trick is to put your apps in /system/framework
Along with framework-res.apk.
This will add a dex file to /data/dalvik-cache, which is needed for saving upon reboot
Does flashing another radio that's different from your original radio impact the ability to apply an OTA?
suksit said:
Rooting requires flashing custom recovery
OTA requires stock recovery to work properly
So if your phone has custom recovery the OTA will not work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting doesn't require flashing custom recovery.
iboj007 said:
Does flashing another radio that's different from your original radio impact the ability to apply an OTA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It doesnt
Potential first time Nexus user coming over from Desire Z.
I intend to transfer my old data from my DZ to the nexus4 when I get it via Titanium Backup. My DZ is rooted with S-off, so it's all good.
I've stumbled over instructions on how to unlock the nexus4 via ABD, but if I'm not wrong, that's only to allow flashing of custom bootloaders and ROMs, right?
Which is to say, unlocking != rooting, and in order for Titanium Backup to work properly, the n4 will have to be rooted as well as SU, busybox etc installed.
Am I on the right track?
Cheers.
nexus come unlock.
unlock = to be use with any carrier
rooting = giving beyond standard permissions such as changing how android does things. EG overclocking, changing your sound "quailty" etc and you said. TB (titanium backup)
Unlock can also mean bootloader unlocking so you can flash/boot from custom recoveries, ROMs, kernels etc (the previous poster was referring to SIM unlocking).
It's just as easy to root, simply install/flash SuperSU via recovery though ChainsDD's Superuser works as well.
Unlawful said:
Unlock can also mean bootloader unlocking so you can flash/boot from custom recoveries, ROMs, kernels etc (the previous poster was referring to SIM unlocking).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Unlawful. Yes, I meant bootloader unlocking.
Unlawful said:
It's just as easy to root, simply install/flash SuperSU via recovery though ChainsDD's Superuser works as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean to say that the nexus4 comes rooted? Because installing of any of the SU apps require the phone to already be rooted, which I assume is not the case even for Nexus devices.
endlesstrail said:
Thanks Unlawful. Yes, I meant bootloader unlocking.
Do you mean to say that the nexus4 comes rooted? Because installing of any of the SU apps require the phone to already be rooted, which I assume is not the case even for Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it. Be cool if it did
Once you have it unlocked you enter the recovery mode and root it there. I'm probably guessing shortly after its release someone is going to make a program so it does it in few steps.
There won't be anything really out that really requires root, other than TB.
endlesstrail said:
Thanks Unlawful. Yes, I meant bootloader unlocking.
Do you mean to say that the nexus4 comes rooted? Because installing of any of the SU apps require the phone to already be rooted, which I assume is not the case even for Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus 4 does not come rooted. You have to root it.
NeverAlwaysEver said:
Nexus 4 does not come rooted. You have to root it.
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Click to collapse
Thanks guys. I guessed as much.
Yeah, I'll probably have to do without the backup of my apps for a few days until some kind soul manages to root it and posts instructions. Maybe it'll just be a day or a few hours even! :fingers-crossed:
You will be able to unlock the bootloader right away.
Root maybe not. In order to root it you will need either need a custom recovery for the device or a software exploit.
It won't take long but a custom recovery needs to be built and tested first.
It's easy to root a nexus
First you unlock the bootloader=fastboot oem unlock.
Then you use fastboot to flash a recovery. Once recovery is flashed you have to use adb to make it stick(delete the script that overwrite custom recovery with stock) then you flash su. Zip in recovery. Very simple to do
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Unlawful said:
Unlock can also mean bootloader unlocking so you can flash/boot from custom recoveries, ROMs, kernels etc (the previous poster was referring to SIM unlocking).
It's just as easy to root, simply install/flash SuperSU via recovery though ChainsDD's Superuser works as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just want to clarify, I have not had a nexus device before, but my understanding is that, even on a Nexus, without unlocking the bootloader, one would still need to exploit and mount system as RW first to install SU.
USSENTERNCC1701E said:
Just want to clarify, I have not had a nexus device before, but my understanding is that, even on a Nexus, without unlocking the bootloader, one would still need to exploit and mount system as RW first to install SU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without unlocking the bootloader, it's much more difficult to root and as you said, one would need to use an exploit and then do as you have said. However, Nexus devices do come with the luxury of unlockable bootloaders for a multitude of reasons .
endlesstrail said:
Do you mean to say that the nexus4 comes rooted? Because installing of any of the SU apps require the phone to already be rooted, which I assume is not the case even for Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Chainfire meant that in case you wanted to switch from Superuser to SuperSU or if you're just installing the APK (the application). If you do want to root, you should just flash the zip file found here in a custom recovery which does everything for you.
Unlawful said:
Without unlocking the bootloader, it's much more difficult to root and as you said, one would need to use an exploit and then do as you have said. However, Nexus devices do come with the luxury of unlockable bootloaders for a multitude of reasons .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Bytheby, my only experience in the past with non-hack bootloader unlocking is with HTCunlock. Have past nexus devices had a permanent watermark even after relocking? I'm hoping that's not the case, cause extensive googling does not have anyone explicitly saying one way or the other, so maybe only HTC is that jacked.
I just want to clear up some terminology to stop people getting confused...
Bootloader a.k.a HBoot - This is the piece of software that runs before anything else on the phone. It basically packages it all up, tells what to run in what order e.t.c Every computer device has a bootloader in some form or another, be it an Android Phone, iPhone, Windows PC, iMac e.t.c. The HBoot is accessible by switching your phone off, then holding down volume down as you turn it back on. The first line of the HBoot will tell you if you are S-OFF or S-ON.
Recovery - The recovery is the piece of software that allows us to write files to partitions while they aren't being used. It is the portal to allow us to flash custom ROM's and kernels. There are custom recoveries with more options than the stock such as ClockworkMod.
Superuser a.k.a su or Root - This is a user that is present on all linux distros that allows higher permissions than standard users have access to. Certain apps need superuser permissions to function, such as Titanium Backup.
A bootloader is traditionally locked. This means it stops you from writing to any partition on the device other than data. What is always true of Nexus devices, and now true of most consumer devices, there is an offical method for unlocking the bootloader. With HTC, you have to download some software, with Nexus devices, it is as simple as booting into fastboot mode, and typing the command "fastboot oem unlock" (assuming you have fastboot installed on your connected PC / mac).
Although this unlocks the bootloader (which by the way resets your device to factory settings), you still aren't rooted. You now have the ability to flash images to the previously locked partitions. Once you have access to write to partitions, the easiest method of rooting is installing a custom recovery (fastboot flash recovery recovery.img, and then using that to flash a superuser zip.
There are exploits for rooting, which either eman the recovery partition gets written to without the bootloader unlocking OR the su files get pushed to the system partition while the bootloader is locked. These exploits are more tricky and are getting harder to find, but allow you to gain root access without voiding your warranty.
To answer someone else's question, when you unlocked the bootloader on the Nexus One you got a watermark on the bootsplash, I don't know about any Nexus after that.
EDIT - Unlocked Phone: To throw some further clarification, when people talk about "unlocked phones" what they actually means is carrier. This term pre-dates smartphones, and a locked phone just meant that if you bought your phone through a carrier, you could only use it on their network, so no other SIM would work unless you bought a code off them to unlock it. This only applied to GSM phones (not CDMA) and s still practised today. The Nexus 4 will not be carrier locked wherever you buy it.
l0st.prophet said:
I just want to clear up some terminology to stop people getting confused...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the excellent clarification. It's much clearer now.
USSENTERNCC1701E said:
Thanks. Bytheby, my only experience in the past with non-hack bootloader unlocking is with HTCunlock. Have past nexus devices had a permanent watermark even after relocking? I'm hoping that's not the case, cause extensive googling does not have anyone explicitly saying one way or the other, so maybe only HTC is that jacked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both the Galaxy Nexus and the Nexus 7 don't have anything changed when you unlock the bootloader (apart from an unlocked lock image on the boot screen beneath the Google logo and then it disappears after going to the boot animation). I would assume this was the same with the Nexus S . Also another good thing about Nexus devices is that you can relock the bootloader after unlocking it and it will be back to a stock configuration (assuming you're on the Google-built ROM).
PlanBSTi said:
There won't be anything really out that really requires root, other than TB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ; DroidWall is the one utility I refuse to live without, and that requires root.
Other than that and TitaniumBackup though, you're quite right; the new stock features of JellyBean mean I likely won't even bother with any major third-party modifications. Indeed, I'm thinking this'll be the first 'phone in many a year which I won't be installing a custom ROM on for at least the first six months of use.
PlanBSTi said:
There won't be anything really out that really requires root, other than TB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, the irony is I really only use TB because I'm switching ROMs. I disagree though, I really like the extra customization that comes with a lot of custom ROM's. But I've run phones for a few months with OEM skins, while waiting on an exploit. I agree there won't be a pressing need for root.
I guess you guys like to actually see ads on your phones.
albundy2010 said:
I guess you guys like to actually see ads on your phones.
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Click to collapse
I actually don't find many apps to have very intrusive ads at all. I also feel better knowing I'm not ripping off the devs
albundy2010 said:
I guess you guys like to actually see ads on your phones.
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Click to collapse
I've never actually ended up with an air push app, and the rest of the ads really don't bother me, sometimes I'll go on a clicking spree to support devs. If it really bothers me I buy the full version or uninstall it.
I'm new to Android. Recently I got a new nexus 6p. I was so confused that whether I have to unlock bootloader or not. Currently I just want to experience the pure Android simply without rooting or changing anything. But I heard a lot about bricked nexus 6 that the device would not be manually fixed if it was not bootloader unlocked before. As I am in China where I have no warranty for my nexus 6p, I have to keep my device safe as possible as I can.
So my question is under the circumstance that I haven't unlocked bootloader or OEM:
How much probability could it be I do nothing but unexpectedly brick the device?
If it is bricked, is it possible to recover it?
Do common nexus 6p users have to unlock bootloader?
Another important thing should be mentioned. Generally I can't access to any service by google in China, so I utilize a proxy tool to get over the great firewall to use google. Is there any experience about the situation like me? I also heard a saying that upgrading nexus 6 firmware by OTA through a proxy tool in China may brick the device, because google can not save the upgrading information of the device for the reason that the proxy IP is not static, then google will push update again, and once you click it, brick.
Puzzled enough...Thanks in advance.
I am not 100% certain what you are asking... If you do not unlock the bootloader, you should not be able to brick your device. The only reason to unlock it is to flash a custom ROM (not official from Google) or to flash Google factory images, which it sounds like might be necessary for you being that you are in China and may not receive OTAs properly. This is a process of downloading a file from Google and flashing to your device after unlocking the bootloader.
Your post was not exactly clear partially, but is your phone already bricked and you are trying to recover, or simply asking for your own reference?
fury683 said:
I am not 100% certain what you are asking... If you do not unlock the bootloader, you should not be able to brick your device. The only reason to unlock it is to flash a custom ROM (not official from Google) or to flash Google factory images, which it sounds like might be necessary for you being that you are in China and may not receive OTAs properly. This is a process of downloading a file from Google and flashing to your device after unlocking the bootloader.
Your post was not exactly clear partially, but is your phone already bricked and you are trying to recover, or simply asking for your own reference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for replying. Could you please point out the unclear expressions? And I could edit them.
I have only unlocked nexus 6p bootloader, and the device is running well. I do not understand exactly why I have to do this, I just do it in case the situation described by other nexus 6 users happen to my nexus 6p. So I want to figure out the logic.
If you have no reason to unlock it, then you can relock it. Unlocking will always cause a full wipe (factory reset) of the device. Some users have stated that relocking the bootloader will also induce a wipe. If you want to leave it unlocked, this will allow you to flash factory images (such as updates from Google) as often as you'd like. It is possible to flash a factory image without losing any data by modifying the batch file used to flash the firmware.
Simply having the bootloader unlocked should not pose any threat to your device. You have to try very intentionally to flash firmware and risk bricking the device, it's not really something you can do by accident. The one thing I will mention is that with the bootloader unlocked, someone with the correct knowledge could flash a new image on your phone without needing your password or other security information. They would only need to power off the device, enter bootloader mode and plug into a PC to begin flashing. This would remove every trace of you and your data from the device and make it like it was brand new from the factory.
By keeping the bootloader locked and the "Allow OEM unlocking" option turned OFF, a person would need to have your password (or fingerprint) to gain access to this option in the settings, thus not allowing them to flash over the device as it is today.
Hope this helps.
fury683 said:
If you have no reason to unlock it, then you can relock it. Unlocking will always cause a full wipe (factory reset) of the device. Some users have stated that relocking the bootloader will also induce a wipe. If you want to leave it unlocked, this will allow you to flash factory images (such as updates from Google) as often as you'd like. It is possible to flash a factory image without losing any data by modifying the batch file used to flash the firmware.
Simply having the bootloader unlocked should not pose any threat to your device. You have to try very intentionally to flash firmware and risk bricking the device, it's not really something you can do by accident. The one thing I will mention is that with the bootloader unlocked, someone with the correct knowledge could flash a new image on your phone without needing your password or other security information. They would only need to power off the device, enter bootloader mode and plug into a PC to begin flashing. This would remove every trace of you and your data from the device and make it like it was brand new from the factory.
By keeping the bootloader locked and the "Allow OEM unlocking" option turned OFF, a person would need to have your password (or fingerprint) to gain access to this option in the settings, thus not allowing them to flash over the device as it is today.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to you, I should not be able to brick my device if I did not unlock the device. I can understand this. But the problem is I am in China...By using proxy, I could receive OTAs correctly. But some nexus 6 users in China still encountered with device bricked after upgrading firmware by OTAs even they didn't unlock bootloader. One possible reason is like what I mentioned in last paragraph #1.
I don't like the prompt each time when I reboot the device after unlocking bootloader. Let's make the problem simpler. Can I unbrick the device if it is bricked and bootloader locked?
I can't really speak to your concern regarding bricking from OTA. This should nearly never happen, but I would suspect that the proxy is the issue. If you are concerned about that particular instance being an issue, I would simply not accept the OTA and don't install it. The file will download to your device and you will see a notification very similar to this: http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/12/1c244e92c6a0cd69ca6e1a3037a05d62.jpg If you do not click Install, it will not install itself. You can click Later but usually cannot dismiss the notification. I have had the update pending on my Nexus 7 tablet that I don't often for months, but simply have not upgraded because I don't use it often enough to justify it.
If you want to be on the latest firmware for security reasons (Android 6/M will have monthly security patch releases from Google), you can download the factory images and flash yourself. However, if you believe there may be an issue because of the proxy you are using, the factory image could face the same issue as the OTA as you described. As I said, because I am not in China and do not use a proxy as you do, I cannot comment on how or why other users may have faced a hard brick scenario.
Ultimately, having the bootloader unlocked will allow you to flash the factory image over a bricked firmware caused by a corrupt (or otherwise unusable) OTA. If the phone can enter bootloader mode, you can flash the firmware and restore it to like new state. The warning message you see when booting is not able to be disabled without locking the bootloader again, but it only appears for a few moments. It was previously hidden on the Nexus 6 (not the 6p) so it might be possible in the future, but that is just a guess.
fury683 said:
I can't really speak to your concern regarding bricking from OTA. This should nearly never happen, but I would suspect that the proxy is the issue. If you are concerned about that particular instance being an issue, I would simply not accept the OTA and don't install it. The file will download to your device and you will see a notification very similar to this: If you do not click Install, it will not install itself. You can click Later but usually cannot dismiss the notification. I have had the update pending on my Nexus 7 tablet that I don't often for months, but simply have not upgraded because I don't use it often enough to justify it.
If you want to be on the latest firmware for security reasons (Android 6/M will have monthly security patch releases from Google), you can download the factory images and flash yourself. However, if you believe there may be an issue because of the proxy you are using, the factory image could face the same issue as the OTA as you described. As I said, because I am not in China and do not use a proxy as you do, I cannot comment on how or why other users may have faced a hard brick scenario.
Ultimately, having the bootloader unlocked will allow you to flash the factory image over a bricked firmware caused by a corrupt (or otherwise unusable) OTA. If the phone can enter bootloader mode, you can flash the firmware and restore it to like new state. The warning message you see when booting is not able to be disabled without locking the bootloader again, but it only appears for a few moments. It was previously hidden on the Nexus 6 (not the 6p) so it might be possible in the future, but that is just a guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I choose to give in...leave it unlocked there.
Thank you very much!
gnange said:
OK I choose to give in...leave it unlocked there.
Thank you very much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The decision to leave it unlocked is the right decision. The other person replying in this thread is completely wrong when he says you can't brick a phone if you don't unlock it, that's completely and utterly incorrect. Sometimes things happen, unforeseen spontaneous problems happen all the time with smartphones. If this happens to you and your bootloader is locked there's absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. So yes, leave your bootloader unlocked as an insurance policy against the unforeseen.
@fury683, I'd think twice before telling someone that nothing bad can happen to their phone as long as it's locked, this is false information, and could potentially lead to someone being unable to repair a soft-bricked device due to following your advice.
Heisenberg said:
The decision to leave it unlocked is the right decision. The other person replying in this thread is completely wrong when he says you can't brick a phone if you don't unlock it, that's completely and utterly incorrect. Sometimes things happen, unforeseen spontaneous problems happen all the time with smartphones. If this happens to you and your bootloader is locked there's absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. So yes, leave your bootloader unlocked as an insurance policy against the unforeseen.
@fury683, I'd think twice before telling someone that nothing bad can happen to their phone as long as it's locked, this is false information, and could potentially lead to someone being unable to repair a soft-bricked device due to following your advice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I said should not. I've never bricked a device from normal use.
I offered my opinion, and the reasons why. I've been burned by comments and advice from people plenty of times and try my best to help out where I can. I don't think my post was misleading, and I appreciate your comments on the matter as well.
Heisenberg said:
The decision to leave it unlocked is the right decision. The other person replying in this thread is completely wrong when he says you can't brick a phone if you don't unlock it, that's completely and utterly incorrect. Sometimes things happen, unforeseen spontaneous problems happen all the time with smartphones. If this happens to you and your bootloader is locked there's absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. So yes, leave your bootloader unlocked as an insurance policy against the unforeseen.
@fury683, I'd think twice before telling someone that nothing bad can happen to their phone as long as it's locked, this is false information, and could potentially lead to someone being unable to repair a soft-bricked device due to following your advice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your advice. So, I can make the conclusion that we should unlock nexus bootloader no matter where we are, when it is and whether we will root or not, right ?
gnange said:
Thanks for your advice. So, I can make the conclusion that we should unlock nexus bootloader no matter where we are, when it is and whether we will root or not, right ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The choice is ultimately yours, but my advice is always to have it unlocked, that way you're able to access and use fastboot in the event that something goes wrong.
fury683 said:
To be fair, I said should not. I've never bricked a device from normal use.
I offered my opinion, and the reasons why. I've been burned by comments and advice from people plenty of times and try my best to help out where I can. I don't think my post was misleading, and I appreciate your comments on the matter as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I am new to android, your reply benefits me a lot. I notice you replied me before dawn while it was afternoon in China, thanks for your kindness but you should pay more attention to getting enough sleep, don't burn yourself out. : )
Heisenberg said:
The choice is ultimately yours, but my advice is always to have it unlocked, that way you're able to access and use fastboot in the event that something goes wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I used to suppose one has to unlock bootloader only if in China. Now I get it. Thank you !
Heisenberg said:
The choice is ultimately yours, but my advice is always to have it unlocked, that way you're able to access and use fastboot in the event that something goes wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep what Heisenberg said is 100% true. My phone got bricked after the OTA update resulted in an error. I hadn't enabled the OEM Unlock setting, so couldn't unlock the phone. Have to wait for a replacement now
*I know this must have been answered before, I am sorry for playing the newbie, but I couldn't find this anywhere.
I need to know exactly what is at stake for rooting my device, what would I lose access to, and what not.
I've read somewhere that you lose DRM or something like that, is that meaning I will not be able to watch Netflix download and go, or Google Play Music, etc? what does it means?
LionLorena said:
*I know this must have been answered before, I am sorry for playing the newbie, but I couldn't find this anywhere.
I need to know exactly what is at stake for rooting my device, what would I lose access to, and what not.
I've read somewhere that you lose DRM or something like that, is that meaning I will not be able to watch Netflix download and go, or Google Play Music, etc? what does it means?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will lose your warranty because you have to unlock your bootloader but if anything goes wrong you can always relock your bootloader and take your phone to a service center and claim your warranty they don't even check it in most cases other than that everything works fine
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using Tapatalk
prajwal2001 said:
You will lose your warranty because you have to unlock your bootloader but if anything goes wrong you can always relock your bootloader and take your phone to a service center and claim your warranty they don't even check it in most cases other than that everything works fine
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And apart from that, do I lose anything else?
Some guy said I would lose access to that extra anti theft security from Google that works kinda like iCloud, is it true?
LionLorena said:
And apart from that, do I lose anything else?
Some guy said I would lose access to that extra anti theft security from Google that works kinda like iCloud, is it true?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing else only warranty
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using Tapatalk
LionLorena said:
And apart from that, do I lose anything else?
Some guy said I would lose access to that extra anti theft security from Google that works kinda like iCloud, is it true?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Provided you're still on the stock ROM, I don't think rooting affects your anti-theft protection (I recall it's called Factory Reset Protection?). Even if you've enabled OEM unlocking in Developer Options, someone resetting your phone would still need your Google credentials to use the device. Also, if you're logged into your device at the time, you could still locate and wipe your phone via Android Device Manager.
Of course, with an unlocked bootloader and custom recovery (as is generally required to root), someone could still flash a custom ROM and bypass those protections and, also, could in theory still access your data. (but only if they have physical access to your device)
As for DRM, I'm not sure but some apps have been/are now detecting the presence of root and will refuse to work (Snapchat, Pokemon Go, some banking apps come to mind) or for other devices, Android Pay and other security dependent features may not work. I recall magisk, a root manager, does have the ability to mask root from those apps, as well as pass SafetyNet, which is Google's security/anti-tamper detection. Your experience may vary. However, some apps require root access to function properly (e.g. kernel managers, battery monitors) just as to how they function, it's entirely up to you if you see yourself using those rooted apps on a regular enough basis. The root managers available (e.g. SuperSU, magisk) are supported and work well, just ensure you're using the latest versions, and if you're on stock Nougat, to flash a custom kernel prior to rooting (since the stock kernel won't permit modifications, if I recall).
Overall, in my view, you're trading security and warranty (as mentioned by prajwal2001) for convenience/flexibility by rooting - the flexibility alone to flash what you wish is what interested me in rooting my device, if anyone else has any other comments, feel free to add.
echo92 said:
Provided you're still on the stock ROM, rooting shouldn't disable your anti-theft protection (which I recall is Factory Reset Protection). Even if you've enabled OEM unlocking in Developer Options, someone resetting your phone would still need your Google credentials to use the device. Of course, with an unlocked bootloader and custom recovery (as is generally required to root), someone could still flash a custom ROM and bypass those protections and, also, could in theory still access your data. (but only if they have physical access to your device)
As for DRM, I'm not sure but some apps have been/are now detecting the presence of root and will refuse to work (Snapchat, Pokemon Go, some banking apps come to mind) or for other devices, Android Pay and other security dependent features may not work. I recall magisk, a root manager, does have the ability to mask root from those apps, as well as pass SafetyNet, which is Google's security/anti-tamper detection. Your experience may vary. However, some apps require root access to function properly (e.g. kernel managers, battery monitors) just as to how they function, it's entirely up to you if you see yourself using those rooted apps on a regular enough basis. The root managers available (e.g. SuperSU, magisk) are supported and work well, just ensure you're using the latest versions, and if you're on stock Nougat, to flash a custom kernel prior to rooting (since the stock kernel won't permit modifications, if I recall).
Overall, in my view, you're trading security and warranty (as mentioned by prajwal2001) for convenience/flexibility by rooting - the flexibility alone to flash what you wish is what interested me in rooting my device, if anyone else has any other comments, feel free to add.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm I see.
That's a pretty big downside
I guess I will pass root for now, I was only wanting to do to use the ADB via USB OTG and boot disk creator.
Thanks everyone for all the information!
LionLorena said:
Hm I see.
That's a pretty big downside
I guess I will pass root for now, I was only wanting to do to use the ADB via USB OTG and boot disk creator.
Thanks everyone for all the information!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair enough - there's nothing stopping you from rooting your device, then performing what you need, before unrooting your device. (Just curious, does what you want to do require root, or are there other non-root methods?)
However, this will still involve you voiding your warranty (via unlocking your bootloader), and may also involve re-flashing your stock firmware to remove the custom recovery (and relock your bootloader, if you wish, though this won't recover your warranty, sadly). Honestly though, it's your device, up to you what you wish to do
echo92 said:
That's fair enough - there's nothing stopping you from rooting your device, then performing what you need, before unrooting your device. (Just curious, does what you want to do require root, or are there other non-root methods?)
However, this will still involve you voiding your warranty (via unlocking your bootloader), and may also involve re-flashing your stock firmware to remove the custom recovery (and relock your bootloader, if you wish, though this won't recover your warranty, sadly). Honestly though, it's your device, up to you what you wish to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah the warranty is not on top of my mind right now, my concern are the other issues it may cause, such apps not working, and security issues.
Like, I had a Sony Xperia Play back some years and past a week I root it, and past 2 weeks it was on Cyanogenmod.
I had Bricked that device countless times and had somehow fixed, I had also replaced several internal components as well, but back then there were no DRM stuff and all, so the rooting part is not what I fear, is just this new wave of side effects regarding it.
LionLorena said:
Yeah the warranty is not on top of my mind right now, my concern are the other issues it may cause, such apps not working, and security issues.
Like, I had a Sony Xperia Play back some years and past a week I root it, and past 2 weeks it was on Cyanogenmod.
I had Bricked that device countless times and had somehow fixed, I had also replaced several internal components as well, but back then there were no DRM stuff and all, so the rooting part is not what I fear, is just this new wave of side effects regarding it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no DRM to lose on Motorola devices. On Sony devices, what you said is applicable. As for apps that refuse to work with root access, you can simply switch to Magisk, and enabled hiding root access from all apps.
zeomal said:
There is no DRM to lose on Motorola devices. On Sony devices, what you said is applicable. As for apps that refuse to work with root access, you can simply switch to Magisk, and enabled hiding root access from all apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's motivating.
And I've found a topic that says I don't even need to flash the custom recovery, I can simply hot boot it and do my stuff and keep the stock recovery.
LionLorena said:
That's motivating.
And I've found a topic that says I don't even need to flash the custom recovery, I can simply hot boot it and do my stuff and keep the stock recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no real point of not changing the stock recovery, unless you are planning to stick with a rooted stock ROM. If you keep the stock recovery, you'll be able to enable OTA stock updates.
From a security standpoint, if your device is lost, it becomes much easier for an attacker to breach your system and much harder for you to protect it. However, according to most security principles, once your device is lost from you, it's no longer your device, anyway.
zeomal said:
There's no real point of not changing the stock recovery, unless you are planning to stick with a rooted stock ROM. If you keep the stock recovery, you'll be able to enable OTA stock updates.
From a security standpoint, if your device is lost, it becomes much easier for an attacker to breach your system and much harder for you to protect it. However, according to most security principles, once your device is lost from you, it's no longer your device, anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OTA updates are one of the reasons, yes.
And yes, from that point of view you are right.
I'm currently using some tracking solutions such as Cerberus, and disabling some features while the phone screen is locked, such as quick settings, and power off menu.
Also the extra layer of security imposed by Google version of iCloud, passes me some sense of safety.
The main thing that bothers me related to custom recovery is that the attacker can replace my software entirely.
While with stock I can have some time to recover the device using the tactics. Enabled.
And root could potentially aid me in that, I could add Cerberus to /system and etc.
You lose security. Every person with knowledge can access to your phone through TWRP, use the File Manager to erase files.key (this erases your gesture or PIN of lock screen) and can see all your info. If you unlock bootloader, every person can flash TWRP and do this steps.
alaindupus said:
You lose security. Every person with knowledge can access to your phone through TWRP, use the File Manager to erase files.key (this erases your gesture or PIN of lock screen) and can see all your info. If you unlock bootloader, every person can flash TWRP and do this steps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats why i'm thinking 3 times before doing it.