hi all. there appears to be a real lot of seriously patient and helpful people here. i am really hoping so. if any of you have helped who you think is a complete idiot with the Nexus7, believe me, you haven't yet. i am about to change all that.
i have the wifi 32gig old Nexus 7. i have been lucky from the point of view that a friend of mine is much more knowledgeable than i could ever hope to be who has always helped when things went a bit awry. however, i would like to be able to learn to do some things myself. the new update seemed like a reasonable place to start. wrong!
anyway, i have the nexus7 described above running Android 4.2.2 and has TWRP installed. i didn't know that it wouldn't accept the 4.3 update OTA so had the issue that after downloading (i assume it has) the update, it asked to reboot. upon doing so, the TWRP screen appeared. i had no idea which option to choose so just selected 'Reboot'. it promptly did so and i found it is still on 4.2.2. that is where i am at the moment. i have looked around the forum but as i dont know what i am looking for, dont know if i have found it.
is anyone willing to take my life in their hands and try to educate 'a willing to learn but know nothing atm' newbe? even pointing me perhaps to some real idiot-proof info pages so i can at least read a bit would be a start. info on how to get from where i am (running 4.2.2) to where i would like to be (running 4.3) would be better, but hey, a start is a start
many TIA
I know nothing
come on guys. please help out here. we weren't all born with the knowledge to do these various tasks. we all have to begin at the beginning! i'm sure someone helped you out to start with
Read the stickies. Going back to stock. Its not hard and someone else has already done the hard part of spelling it all out for you.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Prettygrim said:
come on guys. please help out here. we weren't all born with the knowledge to do these various tasks. we all have to begin at the beginning! i'm sure someone helped you out to start with
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read everything I could about my devices. Search for my issues, here and on Google. Why wait for answers here when I can find just about every issue and fix on earth very quickly.
It's the best way to learn. Posting back and forth on here with people can take a lot of time to solve an issue....searching can solve it in minutes.
Just my two cents.
Sent from my cell phone telephone
I know nothing
tnx for replies guys, but the problem is as i stated in my first post, i dont know what i have got to read. i looked on here and on Google. i am quite capable of using the search, but when i dont know exactly what i am searching for, it is a problem. i asked if someone could point me to what i needed to look at, i am not asking for someone to sit down next to me and do the job, unless i get in a muddle and i would then say.
I told you what to read. THE STICKIES!
They exist for a reason. More specifically you want information found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1907796
But there are other threads that cover it as well.
Read the stickies
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Pirateghost said:
I told you what to read. THE STICKIES!
They exist for a reason. More specifically you want information found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1907796
But there are other threads that cover it as well.
Read the stickies
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can lead a horse to water...
No offence intended, but I would leave your device alone until you have done all your research and understand exactly what you're doing. Otherwise you will very easily end up with a shiny paper weight.
Happens all the time here. And why? People did stuff without reading AND understanding what they were doing.
kj2112 said:
No offence intended, but I would leave your device alone until you have done all your research and understand exactly what you're doing. Otherwise you will very easily end up with a shiny paper weight.
Happens all the time here. And why? People did stuff without reading AND understanding what they were doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wise advice indeed... I had a long winded explanation ready to go... then I read this.
There already seems to have been a higher-than-average number of hardbricks (broken bootloaders) since the rollout of 4.3.
----------
@Prettygrim ...
Stick with 4.2.2 until you know what you're doing... but in the meantime, read everything you can find on fastboot and ADB.
Rgrds,
Ged.
Pirateghost said:
I told you what to read. THE STICKIES!
They exist for a reason. More specifically you want information found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1907796
But there are other threads that cover it as well.
Read the stickies
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you telling me to read the Stickies means absolutely nothing if i dont know what stickies to read or where they are. being a developer has done nothing as far as having some patience is concerned. i venture to say that you were not born with a nexus 7 hanging out your backside and an inbuilt knowledge of what to do. i also venture that you had to be shown and have explained procedures to you as well before you became competent at doing anything. your second post of 'Read The Stickies at least has a link so i know what to look at.. thanks for that!
They are literally at the top section of the ****ing forum. Links? I gave you a damn link to start with.
No I wasn't born with the knowledge of the system, but thanks to the fact that lots of people already documented tons of this stuff I didn't need to have my hand held.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
many tnx Ged. you have told me what to look for and what to read. i have an idea now where to begin. appreciate the help
i know nothing
Pirateghost said:
They are literally at the top section of the ****ing forum. Links? I gave you a damn link to start with.
No I wasn't born with the knowledge of the system, but thanks to the fact that lots of people already documented tons of this stuff I didn't need to have my hand held.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your first reply had no link at all
if i were you mate, i'd get out of here. the pressure is obviously too much for you.
as for the holding the hand bit, i am glad you had sufficient knowledge to be able to do it without. unfortunately not all of us have that. one thing i am not though, is an ignorant ****ing arsehole like you who thinks he's the dogs bollocks and treats new people like they are something that the cat dragged in!! what an attitude!!
oh, and dont bother to ban me, i ban myself!!
Hi, guys...
Can we all just take a step back here a little...
This whole thing is becoming a little intense.
@Pirateghost
You know your stuff, most decidedly... and I understand you're a little irritated by people who don't seem to want to be bothered....
But I don't think that's the case with with @Prettygrim. My instinct tells me he has approached XDA with the desire to learn (by his own admission, he knows nothing) ..... and is willing. Not everybody can hit the ground running.
@Prettygrim
XDA can sometimes seem to be a little unforgiving, particularly for beginners (you're thrown in at the deep end, with guys who have thousands of posts and years of experience under their belt), but slinging insults around is not the best way of helping yourself.
Do a bit of Googling... searchphrases : Nexus 7 4.3 OTA zip... Nexus 7 fastboot... Nexus 7 ADB.
There's a whole shed load of interesting stuff out there... and it's your's for the taking. BUT IT'S UP TO YOU TO DO THE TAKING.
It's almost become a cliche, but it also happens to be true... Google is your friend.
Use it.
Peace everybody .
Rgrds,
Ged.
Lol. I'm the ignorant asshole because I know how to read and search?
Ged, yes I get extremely irritated at people who don't even bother searching before they post. It was horrible of me to assume that by hinting at what sticky he needed to read that it was enough. I didn't provide a link for him, therefore I'm the horrible person.
The agitation really kicks in high gear after a new android release. There is so much stupid in these forums the weeks following a release that after wading through thousands of worthless posts I tend to snap on at least one of them. I tried being nice and directing him to the stickies but it wasn't good enough. He wanted to be spoonfed the info. There are rules here that so many people break just by hitting that new thread button without doing any due diligence. Its ridiculous.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
tnx Ged, for having a little bit of patience. i am willing to learn. i can read IF i know what to read! now i've been pointed to 'fastboot' and 'adb' i have a starting point and appreciate that.
pirateghost, if anyone wasn't reading it's you. i already said i had looked around. before being able to do something you want to do for the very first time, you have to know how to do it. before you can learn how to do it, you need to know what information to look for. that in itself isn't always easy or as straight forward as it perhaps should be. it seems to me that instead of of giving advice, encouragement and information, you use this forum as a personal 'have a go at some other thick ***ker'. you may well be extremely knowledgeable but you were not, under any circumstances, born with the knowledge inbuilt. you had to be taught. and i hasten to bet that whoever taught you had to have a bit of patience and a bit of forgiving. you didn't get it all right all the time, let alone the first time, so start cutting people a little slack, eh? one day i might be able to do this stuff by myself but it sure as hell aint gonna be yet a while and i know it! slagging people off, making them feel like the inferior beings that, at this moment, they (me) obviously are doesn't exactly lead them to wanting to be bothered to learn. that is a shame because one of those you ridicule could become really good and be of benefit to the whole community
Prettygrim said:
tnx Ged, for having a little bit of patience. i am willing to learn. i can read IF i know what to read! now i've been pointed to 'fastboot' and 'adb' i have a starting point and appreciate that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know what a sticky is in the forum?
Its where there is lots of relevant information that applies to a particular device and is denoted by a thumbtack image. It is always at the top of the forum section and threads can't be bumped above them unless they themselves become stickies or announcements.
That is where you start your reading. Along the way you will notice keywords that need to be explained. Those keywords are usually explained in the sticky but if they aren't then there is this awesome search provider called Google that will assist you in any way it can. Its really cool and you should give him a shot sometime.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Pirateghost said:
Lol. I'm the ignorant asshole because I know how to read and search?
Ged, yes I get extremely irritated at people who don't even bother searching before they post. It was horrible of me to assume that by hinting at what sticky he needed to read that it was enough. I didn't provide a link for him, therefore I'm the horrible person.
The agitation really kicks in high gear after a new android release. There is so much stupid in these forums the weeks following a release that after wading through thousands of worthless posts I tend to snap on at least one of them. I tried being nice and directing him to the stickies but it wasn't good enough. He wanted to be spoonfed the info. There are rules here that so many people break just by hitting that new thread button without doing any due diligence. Its ridiculous.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. The rules do say to search first.....and that somehow seems impossible for some.
Sent from my cell phone telephone
I think it's sad that we have someone who wants to learn more about their device, and get's treated so badly. What some of you need to understand, is that the knowledge regarding these devices doesn't come so easily to everyone. What you were able to learn so easily is like a foreign language to someone else. I just ask that we all try to have some patience with members who are less experienced and knowledgeable than we are.
Related
Dunno what people's beef is on here ?
Yes there are new members and so on, but some of the foul mouthed attacks I have seen here is disgraceful.
If your mother/wife/daughter or whatever logged on here would you want her to be subjected to such abuse ? No? Thought so!
Tone it down please - if you don't have anything constructive to add to a post, don't bother.
If it makes you feel better about yourself because you feel superior as you know more about HTC/Windows mobile etc. than other people - go back to your ZX81 or whatever but please stop the swearing and nastiness.
Sorry, just never seen such animosity on a forum in my life!
I wish I could say I feel your pain man, but I am a noob as well however I feel the more seasoned vets on here are just tired of the same stupid repetitive questions typically posted by none other than us new guys. I am not saying its right but the way I see it, its kinda like having a little brother or sister that keeps asking the same question over and over and over again while your trying to get something done. My occupation is sales and has been for almost a decade and the first thing I always try and do is look at something from all sides. In doing this it A) Makes me do a search before asking and B) Not feel as bad if I get checked by someone. Just my .42. Additionally I have found if I really cannot find something then I will pm someone I feel is approachable and let them educate me.
From what I have seen lately, the "abuse" has toned down big time around here, were you recently flamed or something, that made you think this?
donzx6 said:
If your mother/wife/daughter or whatever logged on here would you want her to be subjected to such abuse ? No? Thought so!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bit sexist
Truly!
ChaoticDruid said:
From what I have seen lately, the "abuse" has toned down big time around here, were you recently flamed or something, that made you think this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. The replies on this site have become MUCH more mature, helpful, and professional in the last few weeks.
I hope you're not referring to 'now' ... or maybe you're reading through the historical posts to avoid getting flamed.
This is another reason why, no matter how many times a question's been asked, the old-timers should carefully think about the legacy their words will leave behind on these forums.
I find the repeated questions unbearable sometimes, too. But the historical traces of the blatant abusive and immature replies will live with these boards for a very long time, making it unlikely that anyone will like to search for an answer before posting the same question over and over and over and....
-pvs
swtaltima said:
I wish I could say I feel your pain man, but I am a noob as well however I feel the more seasoned vets on here are just tired of the same stupid repetitive questions typically posted by none other than us new guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They make the choice to read the questions then respond in an abusive manor. Its not like a brother or sister who hunt you down to annoy you. I have tried searching for a good tutorial on how to build packages and what not to build my own ROM but the usual thread I see is, "Google It and learn it the way I did." It almost like no one really wants to share their knowledge on certain areas of ROM building. I've tried googling etc. But I have still not run across a decent tutorial. I'd be willing to help make a tutorial if I knew the complete process. I've seen others claim this forum is for XDA "developers" and if you are not a developer you should look elsewhere for "help." The only way to become a developer is to learn. Most people learn by reading and asking questions. I just don't understand why people insist on berating others for asking innocent questions. I have searched for answers before and not found it. Then later I am reading a thread and I do see the answer to my question but it was not worded the way I say things possible because of language differences. So it slipped throught the cracks of the search. Should I be verbally abused for asking my question? Probably not, especially seeing as how the diversity on this forum is great. Many different primary languages and knowledge levels. It seems like before ROM cooking for Hermes was possible people were all fine and cordial with each other. Then boom, cooked ROMs became possible and it turned into if you cant help me finish my ROM and let me put the donte link in my signature I don't want to help you.
Well thats my take.
PS- if someone helps me grasp the art of ROM building I will make a tutorial and do my best to make it simple to understand for everybody.
Jokinawa
There are still a few bad apples around thou & most of us know them but just keep to our selfs, too much of that n00b flame go read wiki or search google, they can tell you to read the wiki but too lazy to type a quick fast reply to a simple question....
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
jokinawa said:
They make the choice to read the questions then respond in an abusive manor. Its not like a brother or sister who hunt you down to annoy you. I have tried searching for a good tutorial on how to build packages and what not to build my own ROM but the usual thread I see is, "Google It and learn it the way I did." It almost like no one really wants to share their knowledge on certain areas of ROM building. I've tried googling etc. But I have still not run across a decent tutorial. I'd be willing to help make a tutorial if I knew the complete process. I've seen others claim this forum is for XDA "developers" and if you are not a developer you should look elsewhere for "help." The only way to become a developer is to learn. Most people learn by reading and asking questions. I just don't understand why people insist on berating others for asking innocent questions. I have searched for answers before and not found it. Then later I am reading a thread and I do see the answer to my question but it was not worded the way I say things possible because of language differences. So it slipped throught the cracks of the search. Should I be verbally abused for asking my question? Probably not, especially seeing as how the diversity on this forum is great. Many different primary languages and knowledge levels. It seems like before ROM cooking for Hermes was possible people were all fine and cordial with each other. Then boom, cooked ROMs became possible and it turned into if you cant help me finish my ROM and let me put the donte link in my signature I don't want to help you.
Well thats my take.
PS- if someone helps me grasp the art of ROM building I will make a tutorial and do my best to make it simple to understand for everybody.
Jokinawa
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way, they do hunt people down with PM, e-mail, IM, etc...
Here my take
The Art of ROM building does not happen overnight and it is not for everyone. You are also correct there are no A-Z tutorials on how to do it. Nonetheless, there is a lot of information on how to get your feet wet. It requires certain skill set in order to develop good cooked ROM.
Skill set: Search and Read both threads and wiki, Development (someone with a development background is preferred), Cab (building and extracting) PPC registry, Windows Mobile OS (understanding how things work), device infrastructure (understanding how things work with that particular device, because they are not all made equal), understanding you could brick your expensive device with the one wrong turn. Most important patience and keep you changes to a minimum until you get the hang of it.
The list of requirements can go on but I figure with the above information you should have an idea. It takes months of reading, searching, and trying things out in order to understand how to cook. While you are researching you also want to keep with new findings, that means you have to stay on top of up coming new threads. It is a crazy cycle and some of us can keep up with it but I assure you it is not for a lot PPL.
Oh, I forgot one more thing, you also have keep up with your full time job (you know, the one you get paid for).
Thank You
lpsi2000: Thank you. I almost have it down. The only issue I had was one of my apps did not make the start menu icon and I posted it in a thread directed towards one of the kitchens and thus far has been ignored for a week or so. I posted what I put in the initflashfiles.dat etc. It makes a shortcut but appears as a folder link to the /Windows directory and not a shortcut to the EXE. I will get it eventually though.
DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread.
mrvanx: Yes, you are always very helpful.
Thank You all.
jokinawa
<polish>Shines his new Senior Member badge.</polish>
I agree that is has gotten much better in the past few weeks. I also use the ignore list to block out a couple of folks who repeatedly belittle others with their uneducated and profane flaming.
Here is my take. WTF cares
you want a bucket to catch those tears?
jokinawa said:
lpsi2000: Thank you. I almost have it down. The only issue I had was one of my apps did not make the start menu icon and I posted it in a thread directed towards one of the kitchens and thus far has been ignored for a week or so. I posted what I put in the initflashfiles.dat etc. It makes a shortcut but appears as a folder link to the /Windows directory and not a shortcut to the EXE. I will get it eventually though.
DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread.
mrvanx: Yes, you are always very helpful.
Thank You all.
jokinawa
<polish>Shines his new Senior Member badge.</polish>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way I get around some of the issues with applications not working properly, I flashed the ROM, take a copy of device registry and files then install the app on the device and then compare it to see what was changed. From there I normally address it with my cooked ROM.
I must disagree with this comment " DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread." although I have done it at time when the search is not obvious.
If you spoon feed the search every time, then the person will never learn how to search. I have seen PPL on this board expecting other people to do search for them and also provide the answers. Trust me there are a lot of lazy people on this forum.
mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exteremely, MrVanx... EXTREMELY! Only to be outdone by your wonderful guides...easy to follow and up to date. You provide a wonderful service to these forums, and I always look forward to your posts.
Sorry I haven't yet made a donation in your direction. It will be coming soon.
All the best,
-pvs
austinsnyc said:
Here is my take. WTF cares
you want a bucket to catch those tears?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easy there bro... that kinda attitude got the elf kicked out of the house...
You know I would go easy just everytime my faith is restored in the people here the stupid bug seems to bite again. like asking questions that where answerd in a post right above or someone wanting to be spoon fed its almost to the point where no one wants to do anything for themselves. that's pretty sad if you ask me im sure most of the cooks here did not receive the amount of help that has been given in just the past month. I understand helping people but I also understand earning respect and until that's done give me a reason why I should spoon feed when there is a search button and google.
mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pretty obvious answer(s)
why create another thread in 'Hermes Mobile 6', this should be put in the 'General Section'
and as far as i have seen it the abuse has been dramatically in the past few weeks
Sometimes the abuse is (IMHO) justified.
This post generally makes my blood boil http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=311698 - the asshole keeps appearing in many guises, doesn't want to help but only make money. If this is the first post you see when you log on you get pissed off, then get carried away with the 'Flashing LSVW bricked my V3' type of threads.
In my opinion, ronfin44 was perfectly justified in (mildly) flaming this guy.
mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awww fishing for praise now? ahhahah!
Of course it's been helpful.. Honestly, I'm pretty impressed with the impartial, well thought replies that you always give.
[mumbles]Wish I could say the same for me hee hee![/mumbles]
Hi!
I was just wondering if anyone would like to point me and others in the direction of some other useful threads to check out that relate to our Hero. (Not Superman, he's still GSM only)
For example, I've wondered if any subforums other than Hero CDMA in the HTC Hero Forums here on XDA have any useful info or downloads that are relevant. Also, I've been wondering the same thing about the general Android forums here on XDA.
I keep a CDMA Hero bookmark button on top of Firefox, but does anyone have any good suggestions of other sites or subforums/threads that I can add along with it and check about as much as I check Facebook, Gmail and Plentyoffish? Hahaha
The thread list is up at the top.. Under search..
Have fun with it..
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
Haha, yeah, thanks. I was about to say thanks, ****, but I saw you're joking so it's cool.
Before anyone tries to use the old "google it" line on me, let me say, yeah - I've googled it before. I know several good sites to check out other than XDA, like android central and so on.
I'm just wondering what other people check religiously like I check this subforum.
I'm also mainly curious to know if there's even any point reading through stuff on in the GSM Hero subforums. It's so lame that we only get one lousy little subforum! There's bound to be a wealth of knowledge, downloads, etc. in the GSM subforums, but I just don't want to waste my time or learn harmful/useless things.
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
Of course it gets annoying to see people begging for help with common issues that have been addressed a hundred times. No one denies that, but it's just something that will always be there. Unless there is a quiz on the basics of flashing ROMs and using a device before one can make posts on here, it's always going to happen. Getting annoyed with this is understandable.
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
Anyway, sorry to rant on and on about it, but it would really be great to see the CDMA Hero community work together a little better and be a little less anal. This is probably the number one site that people with our phone check to learn more and update and generally get more out of the Hero experience. Instead of scaring people away from making new threads and posts to ask people what they like and why they like it, we should really try to encourage this. The more we all come together and explore things together (regardless of how repetitive and in some opinions possibly even trivial some of these things may be), the more we grow as a whole, and I am sure that this kind of atmosphere will encourage more people to make more and more interesting contributions.
The beauty of Android and of XDA Developers Forums is that they were both created with the goal of people coming together and developing, creating, tweaking, designing, and discussing. Before the Hero, I was permanently glued to a Dell Axim x51v, and between these forums and HTCGeeks, and a friendly and open community of users and developers, we've taken the device FAR beyond anything that anyone could have dreamed it could get to when it was made, what, 5 years ago?
thedudejdog said:
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot, I'm going to add these into a "Hero" bookmarks folder!
tejasrichard said:
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info!
GSM Hero Themes/Apps Thread
Curious - is this thread useful at all to us, or will any themes and apps be useless since we're CDMA?
I already know (I think) that GSM themes won't work because they're probably designed for GSM ROMs, so all kinds of things won't be compatible. (Like trying to use a 1.5 theme on a 2.1 ROM)
Are things like widgets and clocks ROM and/or device specific? I'm on a widget hunt.
I'm new to using Helix and I'd love to find some widgets that compare to the awesome Sense widgets, particularly Sense's beautiful Messaging, Mail, Music, and Friendstream widgets.
raynda said:
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that we care that there is a hundred threads that say the same thing, its that if there are 100 threads of the same topic, it in effect, makes our forum usage a terror, because navigation is almost doomed from the beginning in that situation..
And it is not going to be something that is always there, because with mods actually modding these threads on other forums that I frequent daily, *they are virtually non-existant...
For the "noob" users, they cannot find these answers efficiently because the forum is blasted with the same thing over and over... With different answers in each thread..
The only way to make the "noob's" life easier, is to format the forum in a efficient and knowledge ready way...
Which by letting noob's overrun your forum, is not possible... We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
raynda said:
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
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Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
subliminalurge said:
Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
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Click to collapse
That's exactly what I'm talking about. People will get to the point that they just won't post anything when they have an idea or a question because there's no happy medium. And the worse it gets, the less progress we make as a whole.
raynda said:
Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
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No not you specifically. Sorry that was an analogous "you".. And I totally agree.. But 95% of the ones get shot down immediately, deserve it, even though you might not think so, from the people with answers, you will know almost immediately if it merits further investigation. Wishful-thinking and impossible sometimes walk a very narrow line. Developers and end-users have entirely different mindsets.. That's never going to change.. But the end-users should have a more thorough understanding of what it is we do for you and *developers should be more compassionate "for the most part (there are alot of caring devs)..
Where this sub-forum was destroyed, was giving it sub-forum status and not its own separate forum, like every other HTC device.. Then, we would get a development sub-forum, themes forum, etc. The development is different than the GSM Hero, so why doesn't it deserve its own?
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
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I can definitely see your point.
But this is where the happy medium needs to be found. I know I'm the exception rather than the rule on this point, but by the time I post asking for help, it's safe to say I've spent at least one day each both trying to figure out an answer on my own (and I'm fairly capable), and searching this forum, other forums, and google to see if anyone else has had and solved the same problem.
That's effort that isn't seen, but it's extremely frustrating to feel obligated to explain it all in detail in exchange for the privilege of asking a question.
Now, don't take this post the wrong way. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expecting people to do a little digging on their own before they come crying for help.
I just think this forum (as a whole, not you specifically) has gone a bit over the top with how much "proof" of that digging is required before someone can feel comfortable asking their question.
(And I'm not really even complaining, just offering my observations on a topic that was already brought up for discussion....)
I get very sarcastic... But only because I think sarcasm is funny...
And you really don't have to explain it yourself *in every post.. Because most of us with a thorough background, can tell how much effort you put in, just by your question... (edit* Yourself is again analogous, not you)
For Example, the 2.1 thread this morning...
I opened it up, thinking to myself "Not again"...
But when I read and see that it was actually about A2DP, mindset about the thread changes, and I go into help mode... That invoked thought and development just from that post..
Now if I had opened it up, and it was a brand new "Can I change back to a rooted rom after the OTA update" question... I would have went into sarcasm mode... And I don't want to help that guy be lazy.. Why should we give him the benefit of spouting off verbatim what has been answered 1000 times before, just because he can't take the 20 mins to peruse over a couple threads??
I am all about the education of every single member of this forum, into all of the ways of Android... But its like what my papaw used to tell me, "You get what you put in."
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
OK, now to take the completely opposite side....
I was just reading another topic and in 5 minutes I saw 3 different questions posted that had been answered ON THAT SAME PAGE!!!
The proper profanity has not yet been invented to describe people like that.
See subliminal...
It's not that I don't wanna see those questions asked, I just want people to understand the nature of a forum, and alot* here do not...
If people read, before they start looking for answers, we would be alot better..
The issue is, that all of these people look to have a very limited understanding of Android, and just want a phone to use.. And this is not the forum for those.. Android-central, sprintusers.com, etc are more appropriate..
This forum is for development, not for chatting about the evo, or why your 1.5 is better than 2.1.. or how android is the iphone killer..
This forum is to bring ideas to our platform, and to build upon them... And to release mods and hacks..
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
Or to rant about how developers are stealing our donations....
It is to make our phone better, and with people feeding this nonsense, we are hindering the forum from where it should be...
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
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But what if Sprint sucks, the Nexus One is a POS...
AND....
Why can't I get a Nexus One on Sprint?
(I really do understand both sides of the issue. I just kinda agree that some on this forum are a bit quick on the draw with the "Use the search you ****in' noob!" gun....)
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
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Hey thanks, I'll check that out! By the way, after thinking about it today and catching up on this thread's replies, I think we're thinking on the same page.
It would be handy, I think, if we could get some extremely well written and dummy-proof How-To's stickied for the main page. I know there is already a sticky wicky for guides, but I remember still being a bit lost even having read them when I was new to the Hero. I wrote some extremely detailed step by step how-to's for the x51v over at htcgeeks, and though it might be my own vanity speaking, I think that it slowed down the constant repetitive questions. I'd volunteer to help out with this if we could get some Mod help to reorganize the stickies. I think we should have individual ones for...
- How To Setup an SD Card for A2SD
- How To Install Recovery and How To Use It (Nandroids, what they are, wipes, which ones to use for what, Fix UID's explanation, etc.)
- How To Flash a Custom ROM
- How To Flash a Custom Theme
- Troubleshooting PC Sync Issues
- How To Setup and Use ADB Shell with a list of ADB functions
I know we have this stuff now, but I remember it took a while to find all the info I needed to learn all these things when I was new to the Hero, and the current Guides sticky wasn't as helpful as it could have been. And I'm a pretty resourceful and intelligent guy who can search, read, and follow instructions! (Or at least I like to think so, lol)
Oh, and to make a preventative strike against hundreds of future bug reports on new ROMs, giant bold text on every page of every thread that says "WIPE DATA, DALVIK CACHE, AND SD EXT BEFORE FLASHING A DIFFERENT ROM!!!
Honestly I am starting to get sick at the attitude of some of the members of this forum. It takes more time to ***** than to just simply skip the post and go to the next one.
As the forum gets bigger (XDA today is huge!) you will have simply no way of avoiding these kinds of posts. Telling them to go search or being rude to anyone is NOT going to help.
This used to be strictly a developer forum but with all the press it's getting, the site has been growing a lot over the past few years, and by being an ass you're insulting the very people that are helping this site grow, and even those saying HUGE THANKS by donating money to you for your hard work. How rude is that?
C'mon, let's be more upbeat, forgiving and helpful towards our fellow members and let the actual moderators do their jobs.
/rant
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
Kshawn said:
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
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I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
EtherealRemnant said:
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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^^^^^
This.
We are a development forum, this isn't the place to get hand held and walked through the same idiots guide 30 times with pictures and line by line instructions. I have no problems helping people that want to help themselves. Seeing, "Why can't i flash this" when they aren't even rooted, have nand locked and never bothered to even check the stickies angers me to no end.
We were all noobs once and we learned really quickly to search, read and then read some more. When you think you know what you have to do then you should read some more. Then try.
Many here flash development kernels and then we end up with 15 pages of 55 fps OMG. Camera is broke! Can we fix it? OMG I have an epson with screen tearing I'm going to return this pos! Nova panel no fix? Dude I'm returning it for an epson!
Don't even get me started on the cross device posts and people threatening to return their device. Return the damn thing. I don't need you to justify my decisions. I also don't equate my penis size with my phone so; grats the Iphone records 720p awesome if that is what you need then by all means help yourself. No need to post. No need to post "I love my EVO" Threads in some lame attempt to counter act the negativity of another device doing something better than yours. Take that stuff to one of the other laid back forums where people aren't actively trying to fix problems.
Grims said:
I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
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Why should I waste my time digging the link up for them? Then they are just going to expect it EVERY time and we will keep getting the same posts from the same people who are too lazy to take the time and search and read.
Tough call, I am relatively new here but I help a lot at other forums and this stuff happens everywhere. Some days I bite my lip and some days I am a smart ass.
I definately agree that if you decide to reply you should say something useful so to not populate everyone elses search results with useless info. Of course the bad part about ignoring a noob's post is that they will then keep bumping it themselves until someone tells them to go search....so you can't win!
The other day when I posted at another forum that progress was being made on nova panels and the 30fps cap I flat out told them I wasn't going to post the link because the developers needed the thread to work. I of course credited xda just didn't give them the thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
EtherealRemnant said:
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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Actually, by telling them to just search and not answer their question, we will ultimately HURT those who are actually UTFSE....Google. By responding to them you are BUMPING the thread. Either let it die, let a moderator take care of it or simply tell them to search, but point them to right direction kindly and with respect.
It's pretty apparent that UTFSE is a common issue and maybe you can modify behavior through the forum itself? I don't see why the forum can't search out the keywords being used, sentences and such and force the user to "review" previous postings prior to making a new one? It could even go as far as to have them review and check off certain starred postings "before" making a new one. I have been blasted on other forums for not searching and thus I learned my lesson very quickly. Since it is such a common issue on many different boards, I would think someone could come up with a solution.
My .02-
I don't know how much I agree with the OP. I have been using these forums for maybe a year or two at this point and for the most part the balance seems to be 80% helpful 20% trolls. I figure that everywhere, in any forum there are always going to be trolls but on the whole XDA has ALWAYS been helpful. Maybe I'm just lucky and havent had to deal with too many trolls but either way, while I agree with the OP, not sure how large scale of a problem this really is.
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
People tend to take the path of least resistance, so if they have two choices: search or ask, they'll take the option that requires the least effort--they'll ask. So even though they get *****ed at about searching, they'll still just ask because they're likely to get an answer in a few minutes without having to do any work.
I believe the answer, and what would help this community the most, is to consolidate the most requested information in a SINGLE SIMPLE place. I've checked out the wikis, but to be honest, things move so fast here, even the wikis get out of date quickly.
Consider some of the most asked newb questions:
"How do I flash this"
"I can't get adb to work"
"When will it be out"
"My battery sucks, what do I do"
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
For example, I've seen advice such as: "To save your battery, remove the people widget." I get four hours of battery @ 100% with the people widget, so am I lucky? Is that bad advice? At best, it appears anecdotal. What we owe the community, and the newb offenders that generated this topic is fact based, concise advise that is easy to read, easy to obtain, and easy to download.
I also think XDA should start adding moderators commensurate with its growth. Moderators should DELETE DELETE DELETE posts that burn time and energy when this information is readily available. XDA is nothing but a big ass database of information, and like any other database: Garbage in, Garbage out. We need to keep the forums clean with relevant information.
I agree with the OPs original aims: We should be gracious to newcomers and help people out. I'm sick and tired of reading snarky "go search you dumbass" posts, but I also agree, it does get REAL OLD seeing the same old "I flashed this and now I'm bootlooping, OMG, someone help me now"
One last point and I'll shut-up: The devs spend WAY TOO MUCH time doing bull**** troubleshooting. If we all stepped up and took care of the basic PD for their work, they'd be free to keep doing what we really want them doing and that's improving their ROMS, Apps, Themes etc. So while we work on figuring out how to manage information, you can best help out by answering every question you can so your friendly dev can keep coding.
Apologize for the rant...
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Gotta agree 100%.
Give a man a fish (or thread link) and you feed him for a day... Teach him to fish (or search) and you feed him for a lifetime.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Finally! I couldn't agree more.
I will have to say that I think XDA desperately needs a wiki-post forum feature like the ones on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.
Would save a ton of time on these massive threads with posts that might have outdated info.
jmxp69 said:
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
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I couldn't disagree with this more. XDA is not an end user support forum, it is a forum for exploring new development techniques and ways to hack devices. The main purpose of XDA, in my opinion, is NOT to provide sweet consice fully working solutions. The purpose is to share information that leads up to finding complete solutions.
If new users want to find easy answers then they should use another forum, such as AndroidForums, which do a pretty good job of only linking back to XDA if it is a complete solution. If users want to use XDA then they need to deal with SEARCHING through the developmental process.
While the constant occurrence of people refusing to search on their own is annoying, I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
06ms6 said:
I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
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Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
ramiss said:
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
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Comparing is good. Some people have used the same phone for a year or two and are just now experiencing a new handset or even a new operating system.
It is when the whole one-sided "fanboy" bickering happens...that the thread goes to sh-t
In my past year being an android owner I have noticed a change of attitude in the development threads. When I bought my vibrant when it first came out a friend referred me to XDA. I was new to the android OS and didn't really know too much about how to root, flash, etc. This site taught me everything I know about my phone that I do today, and I learned by using the SEARCH button. I hate to ask questions especially if I was the one to break it. I have "soft" bricked my phone more times than I can count. And everytime I do and its something new that I have never seen I use the SEARCH button and like magic answers appear on my computer screen.
But back to my original gripe about the attitude in the dev section. Used to, people read the warnings that were CLEARLY posted in the OP of a new rom. They also followed directions like the rom dev posted. Now there were a few people who didn't and ****ed their **** up but nothing like there is today. I was a noob back then and really didn't understand half the stuff of what was posted. But I read and researched and now today I finally have an understanding (albeit small, but an understanding none the less).
For the last couple of months though everytime a new rom comes out and we'll use these 2 as an example (Frost by Krylon and then CM7) people fill the thread with pointless ****. Yeah I understand that problems and glitches need to be reported but after 10 pages of the same **** over and over again I think the dev understands that "hey this issue may need to be resolved ". Once 1000 people same the same **** about a issue they found STOP posting **** people. It clutters the ****ing thread for people who actually read for the sake of not bricking their $250 device.
Take for instance the CM7 thread right now. If you sit there and read every page you are going to find at least 10 people that have used the 2g/3g toggle widget and ****ed their **** up by doing it. Even though it CLEARLY STATES IN THE OP not to use it. Then they wanted to complain and say it was an issue with the rom and it should have never been released yet, but because of their actions and stupididty they caused the problem to begin with.
Then in the Frost thread people are just ASSHOLES. Krylon worked his ass off to put out a 2.2.1 TW rom. These people who flashed a rom that was FREE for them started demanding he do this, and put this into the rom, and blah ****ing blah. PEOPLE these guys and girls do this **** in their free time for FREE. And if you like what they put out then by all means donate. But we have a saying down here "Don't **** with the hands that feed you."
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
Pretty soon if the *****ing and nit picky **** continues the devs will just leave. Kinda like Eugene has done before. Like I said these guys do this **** for free in their spare time for fun but here recently with some of the comments that I seen posted it has kinda taken the fun out of it.
This is a community, basically we are one big android family. We all have a common goal and that is to make our stock phone run at its full potential. Part of the fun of flashing a new rom is seeing all the modifications and themes that were put into it. I have always thought of a new rom like opening a present on Christmas morning when I was like 5 years old. Yeah sure you might have a bad flash or 2 but that's the other part of the fun. Learning how to fix the mistake that was made. That way you learn from your experiences and the next time that happens, hell you will know what to do to fix it.
Im almost done I promise.
In short just use the search bar before posting an issue. I promise the answers you seek are out there. I know because I have had the phone to pc error, the E. Can't mount and I seen that error message several different ways. But also read read read the OP because 9 times out of 10 the devs already know about the issue or have posted what is not working and you should not use that feature of the rom.
Thanks for your time reading this and if it sounds like a madman ranting you can thank tapatalk and the small screen. It was hard to see and that's why there are so many paragraphs. But I felt this has been needing to be said for a while now and reading the cm7 thread tonight was the icebreaker.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
+1
I lurked on the Vibrant forums for a good month and a half before I even made my first post (coincidentally, it was the time when JI6 was going OTA). Before I even made my first Vibrant related post, I knew about the terms Odin and Froyo that doesnt brick and all the other goodies (although I was no expert at the time). It helped me immensely the first time I soft-bricked and it kept me from panic.
Reading is a lost art.
I know if people only read more it would save a lot of headaches.
I agree 100% with the FIRST 3 paragraphs, after that I fell asleep. Search button is everyones friend.
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
vibrant2010 said:
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
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I agree totally!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing I would add is that just skimming over the OP does not get it you need to read it THOROUGHLY AT LEAST TWICE and sometimes three times. I know I have to and even than I am ashamed to say I have not understood key points in the OP. I cannot even imagine how the Dev feels when reading the thread with all of the redundant questions and statements. I am so appreciative to the devs and to this community. Without them I would not have any of the very small level of knowledge and experience(very small) and the confidence to mess with this 250.00 phone. A tip of my hat to the entire community(those that read) and most specifically the DEVS!!!!!!!!!
But,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=876777
Is a sticked post on every forum subsection...
Maybe the mods need to post in ALL CAPS!
So chances are... if people don't read the stickies (which answers most of the questions)
Then... well...
I think that the fact that the Vibrant is so difficult to hard brick and people's lack of attention to detail lead to a lot of the dumb questions. While that is annoying, people demanding the devs do this or that and the general rudeness is what really ticks me off. Asking that a feature be added nicely is one thing, but telling them to do something crosses the line. The Frost and MIUI threads are key examples of this. The sense of entitlement around here is dumbfounding.
Have you seen the MIUI thread? Its been cleaned at least 5 times. That thread alone makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. Here's a summary of some of the dipshits that wandered in there:
"I was forced to run this buggy beta on my phone for a week"
"This never should have been released" (never heard of beta testing apparently)
"He's sick? I don't care, updates or I want my money back.....oh wait..."
I love Android, but there are too many ****ing children here with no respect. (Makes me sound like an old man)
Only on the internet, can you have someone who provides an awesome service, at no charge to anyone, and people still be absolute pricks to them.
Haha you remind me of how i used to be on this forum with my crusader posts
unfortunately most of the **** you are talking about WILL NEVER change. its just the way it is. everyone is lazy to a certain degree, but some people are much lazier than others. its just how the world turns. and once you start giving these people hand-outs, for lack of a better term, it will only make it worse.
vibrant2010 said:
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
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+10 on this^^^
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature. I think the problem with most people is they do not know how "find" what they are looking for with ease. For example switching search entire post instead of search title will give information overload in the search results. To even use these options you must select advanced search. But all anyone says is use search. When a noob is faced with 10 pages of results he/she is goin to start a new thread or repeat a post. The op point is valid not new.
ntellegence said:
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature.
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i disagree with you. YES rant threads, in general, accomplish absolutely nothing.
with that said, just because the OP is annoyed with some very relevant problems, does not mean its his responsibility to coach people on basic forum rules. the rules are easily accessible, and honestly....lets not kid ourselves....these people know that the search function is there, they dont need us to tell them.
in fact, id rather see a rant like this than a "search function" thread. "searchsearchsearch" is the oldest ***** in the book. people arent going to search. thats the way it is, theres no reason to start a thread on it, its a problem you can find on ANY forum on the internet......and there are quite a few out there.
in terms of this rant, the OP does bring up some other points that are development specific that are important.
Being on XDA for 3 years, I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
To that, I say I do my best to make sure the stickies have the most common questions and are updated, and I solicit constantly for people to help me monitor/update. I feel the Dev Bible does a good job of this too.
So, ASSUME the searched information is correct.
And yes, do SEARCH!
EDIT, and the OP was so long I gave up on reading it all.
s15274n said:
I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
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this is very true. there are times when you will read something, but youre feeling over-cautious, and you want to just "hear it" directly from someone just to verify.
i really dont have any problem with that at all, its perfectly understandable. problem is its impossible to know when someones doing that, or if theyre just being a sack of sht.
hey am a living proff people learn from mistakes ............LOOK AT ME NOW )
Well said.......
But, people don't read and many that do don't understand what is being said. That contributes to 1/2 the problem,,,,,,But---
Couldn't agree with you more
Failure to search pales in comparison to the flat out disrespect and sense of entitlement shown by some members.
As TopShelf said, getting people to search is a problem that pretty much comes with the territory. Also as was mentioned, people want confirmation, or they feel their situation is somehow unique enough to warrant its own topic/post. We were all new once, so this is understandable.
There is no excuse, however, for the selfish behavior of a lot of these people.
Yes this is a rant thread that offers no real solutions, but short of banning anyone who steps out of line (I am not suggesting this should be done), there aren't really any real solutions. Its just good to vent every now and then, that's why its called a rant.
Problem: People don't read.
Solution: Text-to-speech. (ooo and make it Linda's voice)
Well said.
It's nice to see how passionate some of us can get, and I think that's what makes these forums so good. Sadly there's always going to be these idiots who should have purchased iphones that don't know how to read the OP or follow instructions. They just get flash happy and f*ck up their phones then blame it on the dev's all because they don't know how to read. Sadly what those imbeciles don't realize is that they are slowly getting rid of the dev's who make the roms. Without them we'd be stuck with boring devices.
I'd personally like to see more bans. Ask a question that has been answered in the OP: BOOM, warning. Make that same stupid mistake again, BANNED! XDA needs to start weeding out the morons. This isn't a place for brain dead pot smoking teens who dnt no how 2 sp3ll. It's a place for learning, helping and modding.
Ahh it feels nice to rant.
Paging Dr B said:
XDA needs to start weeding out the morons.
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HAHA say goodbye to 75% of the members, some might say myself included
lets face it, its hard to judge members, because every single member is going to have different opinions about every other member.
mho: they need to enforce the rules more. they need to start disclipining. whether its a 2-post noob, or a 2000-post vet....if someone gets disrespectful....drop the hammer. AND DISPLAY DISCPLINE COUNTS ON USER PROFILE AND WHEREVER THEY POST. we have a "thank you meter", how about a "**** you" meter. bad reputation should be meaured as well, so people know who they are dealing with, and members are held accountable for the way they act.
theres too much politics, and THATS the problem. we have noobs being noobs, but we also have old-timers running around thinking they can say whatever to whoever. and to be honest...i get much more upset when someone gets egotistical rather than when someone doesnt search.
theres too much "internet muscle" on this forum, and frankly its embarassing. some dudes seem to think that just cause they know how to mod a services.jar means they have some sort of special talent, which entitles them to some sort of virtual ego. please dude, it aint that hard, a little modesty never hurt anybody.
NO ONE here should be immune to discipline. from noob to dev....same rules for everybody....that is XDAs biggest weakness.
Id like to thank the D-bags for stressing Ax out!!!......Bravo[emoji19]
Seriously though why can't people just try and help themselves. I hardly post cause I hate being that guy. I don't even know how XDA could help the newbs but I totally understand how ax feels. It sucks cause I bet you people will not even take the time to read that post of his and then ask some dumbass question or complain.
Wow I just noticed he had the thread closed. Man come on people wtf!! He totally gave everyone a chance to back off and I'm sure more than half of the people here didn't even know
Been around a longtime. Unfortunately this isnt anything new. Im old, but Ax is older. We came from a generation taught to respect others. Thats long gone. Next time your out in public, look around at the people around you. Those younger folks are the future. Its a damn shame that respect means nothing anymore. Ax does fantastic work, he doesnt deserve to be treated like that. Those complaining had no business even flashing. They werent smart enough to follow instructions. +1000 for Ax
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using XDA Free mobile app
This is unfortunately what XDA has become. You either accept it or you don't because I don't see it changing any time soon. Continuing to open and close a thread because it's not going how you expect it to, I don't feel is the answer. You either do it because of your love for Android development and for the users that support your work and ignore lazy people. Or you just don't do it. Just my 2 cents.
So I have an idea. We have a great noodles friendly thread already open. Maybe we should just post a link to that thread as a response to every question that obviously should not be in a development thread.
I am just having a hard time believing there are that many incompetent people out there now that can't Google and find the answer for themselves.
Or maybe XDA needs to make it so the owner of the thread can pick who is allowed to post in it. Or allow people to down vote posts and if you get too many down votes you get blocked from the thread.
Just think something needs to change XDA used to be so peaceful and cooperative now I have to scan through 10 pages of arguing of flaming before I find any useful information.
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app
It would be great on these beta roms if you had to be an advanced user with so many thanks/posts to even be able to download the rom. Way too many users have no idea what they are doing and refuse to try and learn. There were countless helpful posts and instructions in the op that were easy to follow. Im still running the US version with no issues.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using XDA Free mobile app
Nothing that you guys will change em.. They have all been spoon def and people keep feeding. Helping is one thing and doing it for them is another. Feel sorry for the guys that did come here and glad that one of my friends didn't get this phone.. It is what it is and u till we all start letting them fend for thenselfs nothing will ever change. Look at how many lollipop is coming threads they have and still opening. It sad. Looking forward to be change.
BAD ASS NOTE 4
No one. I repeat no one should bug the devs. I'll come and see you.
But, isn't it a compliment when people are interested in your work and posting in your threads and pm'ing you at all hours?
How could you be glad people aren't here?
We have the only cool rootable and customizable phone.
You think the s6 will have this many devs?
Do you even flash roms?
Aren't you Mr. Stock rooted?
I think what really started the whole "do everything for me movement" was when a lot of stuff, like root tools became automated. When I first joined XDA, to even root your phone you had to know how to use a command prompt and ADB. If not, you were screwed. So it gave you the incentive to read and try to learn all you could. If you got stuck at a certain part there would always be someone willing to help you get through it but it was mainly up to you. Now, there isn't a whole lot that isn't automated. So new people get use to having everything done for them so there really is no incentive to learn. Then if something is not fully automated and you have to read or think a little bit people get lazy and would rather it be done for them. Actually it's not just XDA, it's pretty much our society in general. Myself, I loved trying to figure out how to do things and became somewhat addicted to it. Now had everything been automated when I first got into Android, who knows, I may be the same way.
Tiffany84 said:
I think what really started the whole "do everything for me movement" was when a lot of stuff, like root tools became automated. When I first joined XDA, to even root your phone you had to know how to use a command prompt and ADB. If not, you were screwed. So it gave you the incentive to read and try to learn all you could. If you got stuck at a certain part there would always be someone willing to help you get through it but it was mainly up to you. Now, there isn't a whole lot that isn't automated. So new people get use to having everything done for them so there really is no incentive to learn. Then if something is not fully automated and you have to read or think a little bit people get lazy and would rather it be done for them. Actually it's not just XDA, it's pretty much our society in general. Myself, I loved trying to figure out how to do things and became somewhat addicted to it. Now had everything been automated when I first got into Android, who knows, I may be the same way.
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I just had a flash back to my original "ddrrrroooiiiiidddd". Hours to adb root it seemed.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using XDA Free mobile app
donnyp1 said:
I just had a flash back to my original "ddrrrroooiiiiidddd". Hours to adb root it seemed.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using XDA Free mobile app
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Exactly. But it made you better
I love the vision roms.
Definitely flashed them on a lot of phones.
But, wouldn't a simple Q&A thread in Q&A like every other rom have prevented this drama?
Then people that like helping could help the noobs.
And, people that don't like spreading the android wealth could f### off.
Cant we just get along.
Even this thread is starting to bash each other about how they should run their thread or rom post. Everyone does things diffrent, and that does not mean they are wrong. We just need to respect each other and give thanks to everyone who develops-themes-assists in making these roms. Alot of time and trial and error goes into making these great roms, themes, and add-ons. All roms have their problems and all dev work hard to fix the issues and to bring you a working rom. If you want to vent then you get on the phone with ATT, Verizon, Sprint, TMO and complain to them. They are the ones that make this difficult not the developers.
It is very simple to post a question, or about an issue you are having,
1. read thru the posts to see if anyone else posted about the same problem you are having.
2. read to see if a fix has been posted about the issue you are having.
3. use the xda forum search and or use google to search your issue.
4. if you did all the above, then post your question or issue you are having, with a detail description of what you did to cause the problem, and lastly post a logcat of your issue.
5. then wait patiently for the dev or one of folks that are working on the rom to post a reply.
6. when your problem is fixed. then thank that person/s for their help.
7 Simple, it doesnt get any easier than that.
Alot of issues that most user have are created by themselves, by choosing not to read the directions, post throughly before flashing the item to their phones
Sorry i just had to vent.
Remember PLEASE and THANK YOU will get more help, than saying hey you need to help me out now.
Rooting and unlocking phones has come along way from back in the tmobile g1 days. These Samsung phones are stupidly easy to root and are already unlocked. I too remember the better years of XDA of educating yourself first by reading and then if you run into a problem asking for help.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
sad to see him go, but i agree we should only have advance users post or even have access to certain threads...like a test of some sort, on basic andriod knowledge, with just enough time to google answers lol
He's closed those threads a lot and reopened them. Let's just hope he opens them again instead of having a debate.
10-K said:
He's closed those threads a lot and reopened them. Let's just hope he opens them again instead of having a debate.
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Lol! If that's the case then maybe he just needs a break. Not really sure what the need is for drama. You can't let annoying people and newbs drive you crazy. I've been around xda for almost 9 years now and have seen many devs come and go. As great as devs are to xda, they need to remember this is just a hobby and the contributions here shouldn't be stressful. If it is... Then it's time for a break. Simple as that. There will always be irritating folks who want hand holding past the point of what is reasonable. Just ignore them after pointing in the correct direction if they continue. I'm not saying don't help. Helping others is everyones role here. You can't let the one's that take advantage of your help to abuse you or your generosity. There is a fine line and a lot of grey area in these regards but it obviously depends on the particular situation. My point is... this should be fun. If it isn't anymore then it's time to step back for a while.
10-K said:
I love the vision roms.
Definitely flashed them on a lot of phones.
But, wouldn't a simple Q&A thread in Q&A like every other rom have prevented this drama?
Then people that like helping could help the noobs.
And, people that don't like spreading the android wealth could f### off.
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The problem is that the noobs who create these types of situations are the same ones who would NEVER use a Q&A thread. 99% of what they need to know can come from using the thread search tool, yet they refuse to do that. Believe me, I'm sure that what made it into the threads from these isn't half as bad as some of the stuff he's getting in PMs. I did same thing Ax did and walked away, as I would get PM after PM demanding help, complaining about known issues that were being fixed, demanding ETAs, etc. This is supposed to be FUN. Sad fact is that the noobs don't understand that NONE of the devs here on XDA or anywhere else HAVE TO release their work. They could post screenshots of it and nothing else if they chose to.
---------- Post added at 06:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 AM ----------
galaxyuser88 said:
Cant we just get along.
Even this thread is starting to bash each other about how they should run their thread or rom post. Everyone does things diffrent, and that does not mean they are wrong. We just need to respect each other and give thanks to everyone who develops-themes-assists in making these roms. Alot of time and trial and error goes into making these great roms, themes, and add-ons. All roms have their problems and all dev work hard to fix the issues and to bring you a working rom. If you want to vent then you get on the phone with ATT, Verizon, Sprint, TMO and complain to them. They are the ones that make this difficult not the developers.
It is very simple to post a question, or about an issue you are having,
1. read thru the posts to see if anyone else posted about the same problem you are having.
2. read to see if a fix has been posted about the issue you are having.
3. use the xda forum search and or use google to search your issue.
4. if you did all the above, then post your question or issue you are having, with a detail description of what you did to cause the problem, and lastly post a logcat of your issue.
5. then wait patiently for the dev or one of folks that are working on the rom to post a reply.
6. when your problem is fixed. then thank that person/s for their help.
7 Simple, it doesnt get any easier than that.
Alot of issues that most user have are created by themselves, by choosing not to read the directions, post throughly before flashing the item to their phones
Sorry i just had to vent.
Remember PLEASE and THANK YOU will get more help, than saying hey you need to help me out now.
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What?? You mean posts like "My phone doesn't has data. how to flash?" aren't helpful? LOL
I agree 100%. Problem is that as I've noticed in life, the smart/hard-working are being outnumbered by the stupid/ignorant/lazy They be multiplying like rabbits.
These are really not the types of threads conducive to a development environment
This is basically a whining about the whiners thread
Developers who have lives and do this for a hobby, some times take on too much trying to please everyone....and forget to please themselves
And yes, members can be demanding, unfairly. This is where the other members of the thread should help out and politely guide and answer those members...taking the pressure off the developer. Official ROM Q&A threads are a great help.
But let Ax take a rest and come back even stronger than before...you are putting the same pressures on him with threads like this, though your intentions are good.
Thanks
Kenny