Database Users

We Need

We need either more moderators or some people with more time on their hands. No offense to any current moderators of the Droid 2 section or anything, but this place is ridiculously cluttered and unorganized. People asking questions in development or the theme/app section should be posted in the general chat or within the same topic of the subject of their question. People in the development section posting multiple topics every time they update their ROM, the amount of topics and confusion could easily be cut down tremendously. If you go to any other phones development section on XDA, you see that everyone just updates their first post. Don't worry about your post count or people not noticing that you've updated, they will notice it.
Figured I should post this, because there are a ton of unneeded and misplaced posts.

For reference...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=731652

I know who the current moderator is, but he isn't taking care of our section. It needs to be cleaned, hence the nature of my topic.
I'm also not trying to attack him/her in anyway, as you can tell from the link you posted they oversee A LOT of sections, and that's a lot of work for one person.

kwheel596 said:
I know who the current moderator is, but he isn't taking care of our section. It needs to be cleaned, hence the nature of my topic.
I'm also not trying to attack him/her in anyway, as you can tell from the link you posted they oversee A LOT of sections, and that's a lot of work for one person.
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That wasn't meant just for you, not everyone knows how to find that info.
You should probably PM Captainkrtek to start with. That seems like the politic thing to do.

General rules we should all follow

Here are some rules from the Vibrant section we should all follow.
egzthunder1 said:
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.
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That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.

flashman2002 said:
That would be great if the mods are able to only give thread permissions to devs. This forum needs this kind of policing, but I think more Mods could help as well, it seems like Zelendel is the only Mod that comes around here.
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Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155

Sqdnguns said:
Sounds very familiar..............
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9591647&postcount=3155
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Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.

flashman2002 said:
Sweet, but I did not steal your thoughts if that is what you are meaning lol. I haven't used Perception since v4 so I had no idea you said this. But it really is a great idea and should be looked at by the Mods and Admin.
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Not at all, just glad someone else actually piped in on it.

5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
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interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.

bames said:
interesting idea.
If you do this you might consider making altering/combining the other forums slightly.
For instance
Make:
General = General / Q&A
and
Q & A = Development Q&A
This way non-dev with specific Development/Rom related' Q's could start threads under Dev. Q & A without cluttering up the General Q&A or the Development Threads.
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I've always thought something similar to this. It seems like a frequent misperception among those with posts <10 that Q&A is for those that know nothing, and the development thread is where you go if you know anything about development (and then you can also post a question there)
I for sure thought this when I first came to XDA (luckily I read the stickies which made that clear). But changing the name could help.
Sent from my SGH-T959D using XDA App

Or another idea would not be to just completely lock the Dev thread to devs, but to perhaps have a minimum level of seniority/experience to post -- aka Senior members.
The reason that I say this is that there are a ton of folks that are not devs, but do post a lot of helpful troubleshooting information and/or feedback that not all the devs can answer personally. I would much rather the devs use their precious time on getting us the next version of goodness rather than answering a lot of questions.
If you do require some level of seniority (100+ posts for example) you can probably cut down on a lot of the typical questions that are repeatedly asked (and answered a few posts back) and have a much cleaner thread. It's not a perfect world, but offenders can be dealt with individually when you have a smaller pool.
Not to say that noobs shouldn't have a place to ask questions -- we were all there at one time, but we just make sure there is a different area for this -- not clogging the particular ROM thread.
I've seen several other forums and communities operate with this type of principle in high value areas. It also allows newer members to get their feet wet and contribute in other areas by posting for others if they want to post in the dev community (but lurking will always be allowed / should be encouraged).
Just my 2 cents.

I have Stuck this as I agree 100000000000%. As far as locking the the Dev section, that has been talked about and is not going to happen anytime in the near future. My suggestion is for everyone and yes that means YOU to treat everyone with respect and dignity. If someone goes off I am almost always on and read every pm so let me know as I cant be everywhere at once and I am still learning as well.

Wow great ideas, I couldn't agree more. +1

I like the idea of new post for new versions, I hope that would cut down on the flaming too due to missing a one line post on page 999 of 1200 that would answer the question.

I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?

agreed man

+1 to the new ROM new thread idea. That would cut way down on the Old Salty XDA member yelling at the noob interactions.
Oh and i believe it should be illegal to call the Captivate a "Cappy" FYL

Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support". Not only that, dev's could start up a sister thread for each ROM they do in the support board, that way the actual release thread isn't a mess.
Maybe I'm just dumb though.

I have to say I particularly like the flaming rules. Sure, noobs are going to ask questions that everyone else has known the answer to for the past 5 months. I know it can get tedious reading these same things all the time, but remember that we once were noobs too, and I would bet most of us have asked "dumb" questions when first starting out. People are excited to learn about this stuff...let's not take away the spark with ad hominem attacks. They serve no purpose whatsoever, and no one wants to read them. If you don't want to answer, keep your mouth shut. If you do, do so politely either directly or (probably a little better), point them to a thread that will answer their questions. But come on, users calling a noob an "idiot" or "dumbass" for asking an honest question really pisses me off. And like I said, remember that you probably did it at some point, too. Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now

geokhentix said:
Don't worry about the guide portion, I have a guide in the works that covers everything from installing drivers to the update-script.
Another thing I would like to personally add. When new users or the not-so-inclined make a thread asking for help, do any of us stop to realize why that thread ends up on the Development board? In my opinion, we need a board dedicated to SUPPORT. Yeah, we have Q&A, but Q&A doesn't say Support to a lot of people. Example, Q&A to me spells "Information", not "Support." Sure, the Q&A's may be intended to be "My phone won't turn on", or "My 3g doesn't work", but if that's the case, why beat around the bush and call it Q&A?
There are those of us out there who do enjoy helping newcomers, and answering their questions; regardless of what board they post on; and there are those of us who like to get deep into this, leave support for the less experienced and get *$&! done. Know how we could cut back on flaming, and on people posting in the wrong board? Spell it out for them, in big bold letters; "Captivate Support"
Maybe I'm just dumb though.
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I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too

bknust said:
I think this is also a good idea, primarily for those with stock phones or just performing basic procedures (e.g. rooting).
As for the bold letters, personally, I like just linking to the proper forum instead...something like "This question should be answered in the Support forum. It's located here: http://.......". But, hey, that's personal preference. You're way's fine, too
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No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.

geokhentix said:
No no, I don't mean bold letters to the people asking for help. I mean bold letters for the forum title so people know it's there. Support speaks louder than Q&A, especially with all the multilingual folks we have on here.
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Oops! Sorry, misunderstood. Yes, that would be a very good way to filter out a lot of the basic stuff. Good idea!

nbs11 said:
I disagree with the 'only devs can post in the dev section' rule. While I would technically not be considered a dev (per se) because I do not know how to make a ROM I would still like to be able to post in that section things that are technically not ROMs but do not fit in general. For example, I created the Galaxy S unlocker for Mac, but I have not figured out how to make a ROM. Does that make me a developer or not?
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As far as I'm concerned, an unlocker for Mac does indeed belong in development with the current structure of xda. It's kind of one of those things that could go under Apps, but when I think of apps, I think of your standard user apps, not rooting/unlocking/ROM/etc. tools/hacks. Maybe there should be a forum strictly for ROM dev and a separate one for general system dev. To me, they are different. That's just how I see it, but I'm sure there are quite a few differing views on this.

Questions regarding this forum....

Had an atrix for a few months now and have come to this forum almost daily to read and learn but have not posted until now. Below are just a couple general questions/opinions that I have based on how this forum conducts itself especially compared to other forums I frequent.
1. Why do people think they are owed something by devs and especially for it to be done on a timetable? To the best of my knowledge these people all have work/school/family’s/friends and work on this stuff on there own time and are not paid to do it.
note: to those who complain about making donations to devs and thinking this entitles you to the above learn the definition of DONATION, summarized as “gifts given to benefit a cause with nothing expected in return.”...otherwise it would be a purchase, investment, or wage.
2. Why can’t people read a thread before starting a thread or posting a reply, usually to ask a question that was already answered several times already in that thread or others?
3. In relation to question 2, why does this forum not have more moderators, especially in the Dev forum were people can’t seem to grasp what should be posted in there or what a appropriate reply is. Almost every thread worth readying takes 5x longer to read than it should to weed through the morons who seem to just want to voice there 2cents worth (and most isn’t worth that).
My theory is, if everyone just took a few minutes to search and read before posting then not only would they not fill the forum with junk they would also learn and potentially be able to contribute to the overall knowledge of the forum. I do want to thank those who already do this, I know I have learned an immense amount after coming here a complete android noob.

I agree with you for donations, however, I take exception on those who have spread themselves too thin, have opened up way too many projects and failed to deliver usable results on any of them. If you've got the donation pot out and you fail to deliver on all your promises, expect some reverb to come your way.
As for the rest of your post, you're definitely preaching to the choir

I'll be honest, I'm a little disappointed in the tone that gets set through this forum sometimes. Just like the devs have families/jobs/life outside of this forum so does everyone else. Now I 100% agree with using the search feature or even google to find information you need, I just think it doesn't always have to take a smart a$$ response when someone asks a question.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

I agree with you fully and that is why I truely believe my idea would clean up the forums immensely. (at least the important part - dev section)
Create ANOTHER sub-forum dedicated to announcements/discussions by actual developers. Make this forum public so all can read and keep up to date, but only those specifically allowed, such as recognized developers are allowed to reply. You could even split the existing dev section into two: Recognized Developer talk/User Developments.
This would:
1. Stop people asking for release dates, they are able to see exactly what is being done and when
2. Stop the release threads, such as PseudoROMs and Fastboot files for new SBFs getting clogged with "0MGz Tkx BRuu!"
3. Maybe make more developers post about their current status if they know they aren't going to cause another flame war or pointless thread due to arguing.
Just my two cents.
- DarkRyoushii

DarkRyoushii said:
I agree with you fully and that is why I truely believe my idea would clean up the forums immensely. (at least the important part - dev section)
Create ANOTHER sub-forum dedicated to announcements/discussions by actual developers. Make this forum public so all can read and keep up to date, but only those specifically allowed, such as recognized developers are allowed to reply. You could even split the existing dev section into two: Recognized Developer talk/User Developments.
This would:
1. Stop people asking for release dates, they are able to see exactly what is being done and when
2. Stop the release threads, such as PseudoROMs and Fastboot files for new SBFs getting clogged with "0MGz Tkx BRuu!"
3. Maybe make more developers post about their current status if they know they aren't going to cause another flame war or pointless thread due to arguing.
Just my two cents.
- DarkRyoushii
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we tried this on the samdroid forum and it worked ...keep a dev section for releases and a discussion section for the releases.
so every mod/rom had a thread in the dev section (restricted to dev's only for posting) and a thread in the discussion section for questions and thanks etc.

Dev thread in general section or the iron fist effect

Hi,
I really don't understand the pattern behind the allowed post in the dev section.
What I'm understanding is that the dev section is for ROM/Kernel only : when I tried to post a dev-related suggestion,
I was warned that it was wrong, and was threatened (!). Now that iron fist is in effect, I think people are "scared" to post
anything related to dev investigation into the dev section, and now all goes by default into the general section when we
have some doubts. Which creates a new disorder, ironically by trying to force order.
The dev section is now only a collection of <10 alive threads about custom kernel/rom. Not really alive section with thoughtful discussion about general dev ramblings. I've found dev-related threads in the general section (see for instance android arm sdk thread, but there is other cases, I let you find it as an exercise ;-), where someone pointed out the problem "Omg dev thread into a general section !". I think there is a problem.
Because it's really annoying to see the dev section becomes a kind of closed area where you are only allowed to post rom or kernel, and without to be able to think about dev itself. Dev section, as its name points it, must allow to speak about dev related things, whatever are these things. And it's a mess when you want to search something dev-related and find it in the gen section.
Moreover, I don't like the iron fist policy, which threaten people to ban them. Threatening=Terror. Maybe mods are responsible too for this situation, where sometimes there is a lack of clarity. I'm not a newbie, and I've posted wrongly. I consider that there is a mismatch between the subforum name (dev) and the allowed content (rom/kernel only). Or if this is not rom/kernel only, there is a kind of quantic pattern, where you never really know if your post will be accepted or not.
For sake of clarity, I suggest to rename the dev section "custom rom and kernel", and to create a new general dev discussion ; or to open the present dev section to general dev-related discussion, without - please- threatening people to ban them if they are not posting something about custom rom or kernel. Really don't like this way to communicate, it's like mods have forgotten they were newbies some time ago posting in the wrong section. Educating people by threatening them : I don't believe that it works. Whatever.
That was my iron fist on the iron fist.

The development section is for posting actual development not questions about development or asking why eclipse isn't ported to ARM. If you have a development question then there is a question and answer forum. If you want to talk about apps and their development then post in apps and themes. The development section is for the development of roms and kernels and the actual tools for development.
As has been said 100's of times this is not a democracy and this is not for customer service. All anyone has to do is read the forum rules and search a little before posting the same question over and over again.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1249254
If that thread was actual developing of eclipse on arm then it would be development but its just a poll to see if the developers of eclipse should port it to arm.
HUGE difference

Ok, if this is not a democracy, but a dictature, I have nothing to add.

altsyst said:
Ok, if this is not a democracy, but a dictature, I have nothing to add.
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Familiarize yourself with the following:
FORUM RULES
XDA MANTRA
Another correct breakdown of XDA:
zelendel said:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
I have watched XDA become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to ****. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question cause they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
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Closing this thread.

[I9001] Is there hope for us?

If someone takes a look at our little community, on first thought he wouldn't find anything interesting, well except the fact that not much developing is being done, but if they keep an eye on our section for a while they would notice a lot of rule breaking, bad habits, childish comments etc... so, after a while a person starts to ask himself some stuff, like:
Will people ever learn not to post non dev stuff in dev section? especially those who post questions, while there is a dedicated Q&A section for that, u just have to use the [I9001] tag and someone will answer u.There are also the general threads, like benchmarking ,announcements, enquiries (especially about ICS and other progress) etc... and all this stuff should be originally posted in General. now it's normal that every now and then someone opens a non dev related thread in dev section, but when u get 4-5 new threads daily it becomes annoying.
Now moving on to the bad habits, things like lil chit chats, non related posts, posts in different language other than english etc... they're all basic stuff that people who ever used any forums should be aware of.
And lastly, the childish reactions/comments by some people (and i'm not gonna name names here) which really isn't necessary in this forum. comments like "this is a copy of my rom" or "my tool has more options than the other one u are using" or "when i build a rom it will be the best one" adding to that the benchmark competitions, as if we're all in a penis measuring contest in which everyone has to prove he's the biggest man. that kind of attitude doesn't contribute to the general mood of our section. What some people need to understand is that all roms we have are based on stock roms, with little modifications/themes/tweaks that are universal, non of those which were ported by one dev exclusively onto his rom, so accusing someone else of stealing or copying is for least funny and childish.
The fact stays that among the active users in our section there are only 3 real devs, 2 of them are hardly logging in, while the third is the most active at the moment and he's the only one working on porting something, my point is, people should accept the fact that the majority are modders at best, and should keep their heads and feet on the ground.
anyways, i decided to open this thread coz everytime i throw a comment in a non related thread in dev section i get replies that accuse me of rage and disrespectfulness towards the other, which is not the case. so, as a conclusion, i hope there is hope for our community, and i hope someone will come across this post and it will remind him everytime he'd think about doing one of the things mentioned above. Cheers.

A lot of your points are true but I want to mention this too:
I haven't been hanging around long on XDA but ever since early november im checking our development section 10-20 times per day.
Most time I see you posting is about offending others to stop posting offtopic.
This was (in some cases) as well against the rules.
Why don't you just ignore them?
Sometimes it is as annoying to see people posting "this is off topic", "stop spaming"(when there are only few off topic posts) as it is to see actually spam.
I just remind you of the ICS testing thread in dev where you "kindly" asked the mods to not move your thread. Whatever.
Yes, you're right. We only have about 2-3 developers. But due to the lack of development our dev section is more like a general section for our phone.
It is reasonable that people post non dev related things in the dev section, just because the general forum is not often used by I9001 user.
Lets be honest: 99% of the user have no idea of development (me included and you probably too). But we are all interested and like to contribute. It is not spam if someone thanks (for example) Yarde for his CM7 work. Its just annoying to see you insulting people who want to thank developers.
(And yes I know, there is a "thanks" button)
It always depends on the point of view.
Maybe Yarde/skywalker01 look at your post and the only thing they can see is spam (just because it is technically wrong).
Don't forget, it is just a forum where a lot of people come together to share interests.

Everyone has the right to their opinion, u stated urs, and i respect it , but not necessarily agree with it
annqx said:
Most time I see you posting is about offending others to stop posting offtopic.
ts just annoying to see you insulting people who want to thank developers.
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link me to any of my posts where i "insult" people, and i don't mean when i comment stuff like "this is off topic" or "stop spamming and post in general" , i never insulted anyone in any of my posts i can assure u
I just remind you of the ICS testing thread in dev where you "kindly" asked the mods to not move your thread. Whatever.
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yes i kindly asked the mods not to move it so people could see it, and i got pm's from people who wanted to test what zackconsole was trying to build, and u can find all this in that thread, also if u check my last post in that thread, u will see that i also "kindly" asked the mods to close it bcoz of the spamming and non related posts.
Yes, you're right. We only have about 2-3 developers. But due to the lack of development our dev section is more like a general section for our phone.
It is reasonable that people post non dev related things in the dev section, just because the general forum is not often used by I9001 user.
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it's ok , if u're all satisfied with the way things are now and trust me, i've written this post coz i don't feel like guiding people every single day in which section they should post. if it was to xda rules, none of the questions that are asked in rom (and other dev) threads are allowed, when people have questions of any type they should ask in Q&A , the dev threads are only for dev discussion, but xda and the mods are flexible enough to let people post and ask in the corresponding threads, but it doesn't mean that that flexibility should be abused
And as for posts like "wow, this is great" , "thank u" , "nice job" etc.. they only pump up the post count and make it hard to navigate throughout the thread and find useful posts.Ignoring all these "issues" only leaves space for more such acts.

So what is the solution? Posting in [I9000] General forum even tho the majority of the user won't see it?
Popularity for our phone would help, otherwise I don't see a "Galaxy S I9001 General" section.

Add this to your signature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA

annqx said:
So what is the solution? Posting in [I9000] General forum even tho the majority of the user won't see it?
Popularity for our phone would help, otherwise I don't see a "Galaxy S I9001 General" section.
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if u take a look at our Q&A and General threads u will see a lot of my posts, i come by whenever i'm online even though i'm not obliged to, but i look at it this way, if people asking for help won't get it here it's logical that they will start posting their questions and problems in dev, so even if i don't have a solution for someone's problem i try to give a suggestion or any sort of help, and i would appreciate it if more users would visit our threads and help others, that's the only way to get people to post there. If someone doesn't want to use our threads they can always post in I9000 Q&A or General sections , as long as they use the [I9001] tag, someone of us will notice it for sure, after all that's how u got to my post in I9000 General
wintel_mac said:
Add this to your signature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
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lol i remember baadnewz when he was still in the desire forum, he made that link famous