Database Users

Any news about FroYo

FroYo is the "codename" of the next android update. Thats the only thing I know about this. Even the google search shows only two results about this Android FroYo. Anyone here knows more about this update, any speculations, confirmed features or release date? Please share...

faraz1992 said:
FroYo is the "codename" of the next android update. Thats the only thing I know about this. Even the google search shows only two results about this Android FroYo. Anyone here knows more about this update, any speculations, confirmed features or release date? Please share...
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http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/29/exclusive-android-froyo-to-take-a-serious-shot-at-stemming-plat/
Exclusive: Android Froyo to take a serious shot at stemming platform fragmentation
By Chris Ziegler posted Mar 29th 2010 11:16AM
Feature
Exclusive
We had a couple people at CTIA last week -- people whose words carry weight -- tell us off the record that the next major version of Android would take big strides toward stopping the ugly trend toward severe fragmentation that has plagued the platform for much of this and last year. You know, the kind of fragmentation that has already left users running not one, not two, not three, but four distinct versions of the little green guy (1.5, 1.6, 2.0, and 2.1) depending on a seemingly arbitrary formula of hardware, carrier, region, software customization, and manufacturers' ability to push updates in a timely fashion. Put simply, Google's been iterating the core far faster than most of its partners have been able to keep up.
Thing is, in light of our CTIA conversations, we didn't have an idea of how Google planned on fixing this -- until now. We've been given reason to believe that the company will start by decoupling many of Android's standard applications and components from the platform's core and making them downloadable and updatable through the Market, much the same as they've already done with Maps. In all likelihood, this process will take place over two major Android versions, starting with Froyo and continuing through Gingerbread. Notice that we said apps and components, meaning that some core elements of Android -- input methods, for instance -- should get this treatment. This way, just because Google rolls out an awesome new browser doesn't mean you need to wait for HTC, Samsung, or whomever made your phone to roll it into a firmware update, and for your carrier to approve it -- almost all of the juicy user-facing stuff will happen through the Market.
The second part of this doubled-edged attack on platform fragmentation comes from a simple reality: we're hearing that Google may be nearing the end of its breakneck development pace on Android's core and shifting attention to apps and features. By the time we get to Froyo, the underlying platform -- and the API that devs need to target -- will be reaching legitimate maturity for the first time, which means we should have far fewer tasty treat-themed code names to worry about over the course of an average year. We like awesome new software as much as the next guy, but Google's been moving so fast lately that they've created a near constant culture of obsolescence anxiety among the hardcore user base -- and in turn, that leads to paralysis at the sales counter.
How much of this strategy actually materializes -- and how effective it is at changing the direction of the platform at large -- remains to be seen, but it sounds like a promising turn of events. Considering it's been a solid five months since the Eclair SDK premiered, that's an eternity in Google years; time to shake things up a bit, we reckon.
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I the defragmentation is a great idea though it doesnt really affect me too much. Any news about new features and software fixes that may be included in froyo?
Also is there any word on smaller, sooner updates for fixes or features or are we certain that froyo will be the next ota? I've had no success searching with Google. Thanks

Ive heard nothing nor seen anything that makes me think Froyo will add any feature or functionality worth noting.
IMO The fact they are addressing fragmentation is a big deal. The fact they have opened up some APIs is also a big deal. But only down the road and for developers.
As for the end user The only things to really look forward to is flash and core player ((if that ever even comes out)). None of those are coming from Google.
Iphone adding multitasking is going to shift things majorly into "even" status for Apple/Android IMO.
Only ace up Androids sleeve is Flash.
Copy/paste , Gmail app , image quality , etc arent likely to be fixed or refined.

xManMythLegend said:
Ive heard nothing nor seen anything that makes me think Froyo will add any feature or functionality worth noting.
IMO The fact they are addressing fragmentation is a big deal. The fact they have opened up some APIs is also a big deal. But only down the road and for developers.
As for the end user The only things to really look forward to is flash and core player ((if that ever even comes out)). None of those are coming from Google.
Iphone adding multitasking is going to shift things majorly into "even" status for Apple/Android IMO.
Only ace up Androids sleeve is Flash.
Copy/paste , Gmail app , image quality , etc arent likely to be fixed or refined.
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Multitasking is a big thing for apple users but i don't think its going to convert any androider to an iphoner.
Once FroYo comes out and removes the fragmentation of android versions, google will shift its focus to developing applications and I'm sure it will soon catch up with apple's app market but with more free apps...

It seems likely the JIT will finally ship
http://code.google.com/events/io/2010/sessions/jit-compiler-androids-dalvik-vm.html
Early/leaked/(faked?) benchmarks show significant performance boosts across the board.

xManMythLegend said:
Ive heard nothing nor seen anything that makes me think Froyo will add any feature or functionality worth noting.
IMO The fact they are addressing fragmentation is a big deal. The fact they have opened up some APIs is also a big deal. But only down the road and for developers.
As for the end user The only things to really look forward to is flash and core player ((if that ever even comes out)). None of those are coming from Google.
Iphone adding multitasking is going to shift things majorly into "even" status for Apple/Android IMO.
Only ace up Androids sleeve is Flash.
Copy/paste , Gmail app , image quality , etc arent likely to be fixed or refined.
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Actually, this is a solid plan to put them right up there with Apple in terms of believability. I mean this to the common user, that it will be a completely customizable os, this might actually unleash a beast upon Apple if they do it right. Think about it, total Android domination because there will finally be a uniform operating system to work with for all manufacturers. Lastly, if true, this could mean the long awaited "catch up" for the Android market towards Apples app market. (don't understand why, more apps doesn't=good apps)

faraz1992 said:
Multitasking is a big thing for apple users but i don't think its going to convert any androider to an iphoner.
Once FroYo comes out and removes the fragmentation of android versions, google will shift its focus to developing applications and I'm sure it will soon catch up with apple's app market but with more free apps...
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One of the first things someone says (almost 90% of the time) is "it multi tasks"... when someone asks what can android do Iphone cant.
You remove that edge, you cant rely on "it does widgets".
IMO it would make people less likely to leave iphone and some that left ok with going back.
Android would then need something else thats truly big like "oh it plays Flash" to hold an edge. Considering the hardware rumors of the iPhone 4g I think its going to be desperately needed.
This is sort of the same boat Apple is in now..Android can now say "we do pinch zoom" so a big Apple + is now gone.
mafaesto said:
Actually, this is a solid plan to put them right up there with Apple in terms of believability. I mean this to the common user, that it will be a completely customizable os, this might actually unleash a beast upon Apple if they do it right. Think about it, total Android domination because there will finally be a uniform operating system to work with for all manufacturers. Lastly, if true, this could mean the long awaited "catch up" for the Android market towards Apples app market. (don't understand why, more apps doesn't=good apps)
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Definitely not knocking the plan. Fragmentation is a bigger issue than say refining copy/paste. I just mean that unlike previous updates theres nothing to be wetting our appetites over. Unless they actually do sneak in some great refinements.

Quite interesting xManMythLegend, multi tasking was one of our strong points. Without it, Android won't have much to back it up with - other than our customization, development, open source-ness, flash, color notifications, etc. etc..
What will the new iPhone have that will make it so new exactly? Well multi tasking is quite awesome, and they probably will enable changing the wallpaper.. widgets hopefully won't make it. Hmm, I cant really rebel until I get some more information about this 4th OS...

@xManMythLegend
I apologize I wasn't really knocking you either. I was just giving more thought maybe? (question mark because idk if it's been mentioned this way)

xManMythLegend said:
One of the first things someone says (almost 90% of the time) is "it multi tasks"... when someone asks what can android do Iphone cant.
You remove that edge, you cant rely on "it does widgets".
.
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How about free VoiP calls forever?
http://lifehacker.com/5512444/google-voice-desktop-client-could-be-on-the-way

xManMythLegend said:
Definitely not knocking the plan. Fragmentation is a bigger issue than say refining copy/paste. I just mean that unlike previous updates theres nothing to be wetting our appetites over. Unless they actually do sneak in some great refinements.
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Im not sure it needs "great" refinements. It just needs refinement period. All those little things like not being able to adjust the font size in messaging add up. My guess is they will fix some of these things and while individually they are just little niggles, cumulatively they add up to a weaker user experience. The iphone has had hardware weaknesses for years and did at introduction but the user experience has been quite good and handsets moved off the shelf.
I have to agree that if there was anything revolutionary would would have got a whiff of it by now. My guess is however they do plug/fix/remove a whole bunch of those little niggles and this is a good thing that in total should improve the experience for the end user. The hardware aspect on the iphone appears more catch up than leap frog to me.
Proper outlook integration is a fundamental flaw in android for business users. Proper and complete syncing of outlook, both exchange and direct to desktop outlook, should be built in. I understand that google wants to lock users into their services but outlook is pretty much a standard and near ubiquitous. The lack of this one thing will lock out a large number of users at least in the near term foreseeable future. It is my hope they add this in at some point and the sooner the better.

Eclair~ said:
Quite interesting xManMythLegend, multi tasking was one of our strong points. Without it, Android won't have much to back it up with - other than our customization, development, open source-ness, flash, color notifications, etc. etc..
What will the new iPhone have that will make it so new exactly? Well multi tasking is quite awesome, and they probably will enable changing the wallpaper.. widgets hopefully won't make it. Hmm, I cant really rebel until I get some more information about this 4th OS...
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check this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=660334

mafaesto said:
@xManMythLegend
I apologize I wasn't really knocking you either. I was just giving more thought maybe? (question mark because idk if it's been mentioned this way)
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No need for apology
Landscape just got interesting. Im really curious how this freindly face slapping will effect us in the next few months and beyond.

xManMythLegend said:
...
IMO it would make people less likely to leave iphone and some that left ok with going back.
Android would then need something else thats truly big like "oh it plays Flash" to hold an edge. Considering the hardware rumors of the iPhone 4g I think its going to be desperately needed...
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Android boasting they can play flash is not a OS upgrade in the least and is not something android should boast about, this is simple software. I believe froyo is going to be actual changes to the os which will bring a slightly different experience.
As for the hardware, by the time the Nexus 2 is ready to be released qualcomm would have completed their 1.3 and the dual 1.5 processors. The Nexus 2 will probably incorporate one of these.

No one mentioned the included Portable App Engine. Also should come with Duke Nukem Legend I hear

Couple things:
First of all, iPhone OS 4 isn't going to offer "true" multitasking. What it's doing is providing an API through which some of the phone's functions can be accessed by an app that is in a suspended state.
For a majority of average users, this will probably be enough. But it's not perfect multi-tasking. It's Apple's attempt to reduce the disadvantages of multi-tasking for non-techie people (apps consuming lots of CPU cycles, battery life destruction).
Second of all, there will still be no widgets which, in my opinion, is one of the primary draws for me towards Android and away from my iPhone.
Third, there will still be the major stumbling block of Apple not allowing true system integration of apps. For instance, they will never allow Google Voice apps (if they allow them in the store at all) to take over the native dialer. You still can't have a Gmail app that is charged with being the default system email app. Without things like this, there's still going to be a fundamental disconnect when customizing the system, and a substantial reason for developers to code for the Android platform.
Fourth, Apple's tight integration of hardware and software mean that, no matter what, people who want choices in their phone's hardware are going to go with Android. If I want a small, metal, unibody phone - Android has one. If I want a big ol' touchscreen and fast processor - Android has one. If I want a physical keyboard - yep, that's Android.
I don't see iPhone OS4 or the new hardware as going to keep me on the iPhone platform. Right now I'm being particularly budget-conscious, so I'm not switching immediately, but there are still a lot of advantages to the Android platform other than "multi-tasking."

binary visions said:
First of all, iPhone OS 4 isn't going to offer "true" multitasking. What it's doing is providing an API through which some of the phone's functions can be accessed by an app that is in a suspended state.
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Hmm, I wonder which other mobile OS does that...

But if i press home while the Browser is loading a page, and send a text, when i got back to the Browser it has done loading the page.
With iPhone 4 will the browser just suspend and not continue loading the webpage?

cymru said:
But if i press home while the Browser is loading a page, and send a text, when i got back to the Browser it has done loading the page.
With iPhone 4 will the browser just suspend and not continue loading the webpage?
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The iPhone OS already loads the browser in the background.

Apple OS 4 Change-Log

Apple rolls out v4.0 of their iPhone OS for dev preview and finally, multitasking will be officially available. Seems like a lot of changes in security, performance and feature updates.
1. Multitasking (apple claims that its going to be best at this, just like copy/paste). They also admit that it might make the phone's performance sluggish.
2. Phone's notification bar now shows if someone requested for its location.
3. Fast App Switching allows an app to save its session and resume from there later.
4. Drag and drop app icons in custom folders. That means you can now have any number of apps. When you run out of space, just create a folder any drag apps into them. (There is something more but i didn't make what Steve was trying to explain.
5. Unified inbox for several mail clients, including fast inbox switching to focus on a specific client. Attachments can now be opened with a third party app. Support for multiple Exchange accounts and some VPN options.
6. iBooks on iPhone.
7. More privileges to developers including interaction with calendar, photo library, quicklook etc. Over 1500 new APIs and a new framework for hardware accelerated math function (called accelerate).
8. Better gaming with social gaming network.
9. iAds, thats delivers mobile advertisements with emotions (I don't know what Steve meant by this).
10. Create playlists, 5x digital zoom, tap to focus on video, gift apps, geotagging, places in the photo app, change the homescreen wallpaper, bluetooth keyboards, spell checker etc.
There are over 100 new updates, these were the only ones revealed at the event.
Some of the features are really funny, like folders, wallpapers, playlists, geotagging, spell checker. What I don't get is that Android already supports all of these features (other than the iCraps) but new versions of Android aren't as anticipated as iPhone's OS. Seems like Google really needs some good marketing strategies.

Yeah I agree.
It annoys me how much of a cult that apple has following its every move. Even if they don't come out with the best product they have so many sheep that will buy their products at the drop of a hat it doesn't matter how inferior their products are. Dunno if I would even want Google followers to become sheep like they are with Apple.
If Google did the same thing and put together keynotes / apple style events and focused on a few particular products then I could see it but there's a big difference between the two: Apple is a hardware company, Google is a advertising company. Hard for Google to have Keynotes about its Android operating system when most of the devices aren't even on the latest version.
Perhaps FroYo will change this...

Is this coming to the current iphone or just for hte next-gen iphone?

INeedYourHelp said:
Is this coming to the current iphone or just for hte next-gen iphone?
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Its coming out for current phones this summer...

faraz1992 said:
Its coming out for current phones this summer...
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not every feature. i believe they said multitasking will only be on the new version.

I do believe that Apples announcement is very much an update full of catchup!
Certainly pretty much all features announced android can do natively!
The problem I have and i'm by no means an apple fanboy as I have an N1 and love it sinece coming from my 3GS is that the android implementation needs to be way more polished.
Exchange support for me is a biggy and needs to be much better the HTC Desire ROM is much improved over stock google one for the N1 but still room for improvement.
I would like all my email in one exchange and gmail in one app rather than have to flick between two different apps.
but hey!

ap3604 said:
Yeah I agree.
It annoys me how much of a cult that apple has following its every move. Even if they don't come out with the best product they have so many sheep that will buy their products at the drop of a hat it doesn't matter how inferior their products are. Dunno if I would even want Google followers to become sheep like they are with Apple.
If Google did the same thing and put together keynotes / apple style events and focused on a few particular products then I could see it but there's a big difference between the two: Apple is a hardware company, Google is a advertising company. Hard for Google to have Keynotes about its Android operating system when most of the devices aren't even on the latest version.
Perhaps FroYo will change this...
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I agree here, I don't know if I want Android to have slaves around it like Apple - those Apple fanboys tend to get irritating, and hearing Android ones wouldn't be too soothing either..
Google is hiring a marketing manager, OP, let's just hope they don't go overboard. Just enough to bring Android more into the eyes of the public.

Eclair~ said:
I agree here, I don't know if I want Android to have slaves around it like Apple - those Apple fanboys tend to get irritating, and hearing Android ones wouldn't be too soothing either..
Google is hiring a marketing manager, OP, let's just hope they don't go overboard. Just enough to bring Android more into the eyes of the public.
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Yes, we need to always remind google that it does have flaws, and that it needs improve its core apps.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not going to buy a nexus 2 unless that phone wows me just like the n1 did.

jz9833 said:
not every feature. i believe they said multitasking will only be on the new version.
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multi on 3GS and the 4th gen

zachthemaster said:
multi on 3GS and the 4th gen
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No multi for 3g??? I thought it had a good processor....

@faraz1992 - Not good enough it would seem.
Looks like iPhone OS 4 is bringing the iPhone up to par with my Nokia 3330 though ;-p
Google really should advertise the Android OS. iPhones are a joke in comparison. Its taken until version 4 to be able to change the home screen?!?! UNBELIEVABLE!

Just sayin'
All of you complaining about fanboys, are acting like fanboys yourselves. So, umm, STFU you morons

bobtentpeg said:
Just sayin'
All of you complaining about fanboys, are acting like fanboys yourselves. So, umm, STFU you morons
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Ooo "stfu", you are definitely not an immature moron. This is an Android section, obviously the people here will have more interest in Android and more hate in Apple. Even if they are acting like fanboys, their statements are quite true.
This fourth OS is nothing too spectacular - many features it contains are already preset in Android, and many other phone that have been out for a while, now just because Apple is announcing it - it is seen as something of amazement..

Why is this posted in nexus forum?

Doc
Thanks for the post. A very interesting topic indeed.
Even with all the problems I've had with my Nexus One (Touch input indexed incorrectly, Phone locking up during phone calls via Google Voice) I doubt I would ever even think about switching back to the iphone much less actually do it.
That said, I believe Google could benefit greatly by adopting 2 apple iphone platform paradigms (say that 3 times fast)
1) A more rigorous app store review process. Too much crap makes it way to the Android app store in my opinion. Google should review each app to ensure it meets certain quality measurements both in interface design and "under the hood". Apple, and thus the iphone platform, benefits greatly from being able to ensure end users that any app they use from their store will work with the phone and will meet apple's very high (almost too high) quality standards. I doubt very many of us can honestly argue that apple doesn't make a product that is great to use. Apple's stuff glistens and people want stuff that glistens...or at least I do!
2) Funnel all payments through Google and then back out to the developers. the iphone app store again benefits greatly from the fact that any purchase you make goes through your iTunes account. You never have to try and fumble around trying to key in a credit card number directly into the phone and you can be sure you information is safe (or at least is only in one database). Simply said, it simplifies the process. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of mass consumerism but the iphone app store, because of what I said in my first item and because of what I stated in the second lends itself greatly to impulse buying or, at the very least, kills having to debate whether you feel like whipping out your credit card, keying all the information in, submitting, worrying about where your data is going, etc. etc. I can buy with confidence. And when I buy I want to be confident about what I'm getting and I want the process to be fast and simple. the iphone app store is fast and simple.
anyway, again a great topic.

DaveKid said:
Doc
2) Funnel all payments through Google and then back out to the developers. the iphone app store again benefits greatly from the fact that any purchase you make goes through your iTunes account. You never have to try and fumble around trying to key in a credit card number directly into the phone and you can be sure you information is safe (or at least is only in one database). Simply said, it simplifies the process.
anyway, again a great topic.
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But you don't have to type your CC number in to buy an app all the time?
I have my card stored on my google account I just clicked 'buy' or am I misreading your post?

Amdathlonuk said:
But you don't have to type your CC number in to buy an app all the time?
I have my card stored on my google account I just clicked 'buy' or am I misreading your post?
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yes...my bad. It was assumed by me that we all know you don't ALWAYS have to type it in. Also, I believe there is a review process in place but again I assumed that we all know it isn't nearly as rigorous as with the iphone app store.
But I do want to add one more thing. Google should be funneling money into XDA!!!! this site and some others like it are the life blood of the android OS and it's popularization and customization. If Google were smart they would fund the development of the XDA site and get the main players involved on the payroll....(this assumes that anyone involved would actually like to be on their payroll. autonomy does have it's own set of niceties)

DocRambone said:
Why is this posted in nexus forum?
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Its posted in the nexus one forum so that we can make fun of what apple's newest update has to offer. People going crazy about this update because of features like wallpapers, folders and MULTITASKING, something that first generation android phones were capable of...

Android Is As Open As The Clenched Fist I’d Like To Punch The Carriers With

He makes some good points.
Android Is As Open As The Clenched Fist I’d Like To Punch The Carriers With
MG Siegler
Sep 9, 2010
This past weekend, I wrote a post wondering if Android was surging in the U.S. market because Apple was letting it? The main thought was that by remaining exclusively tied to AT&T, Apple was driving some users to choose Android, which is available on all the U.S. carriers. In the post, I posed a question: if it’s not the iPhone/AT&T deal, why do you choose Android? Nearly 1,000 people responded, and a large percentage focused on the same idea: the idea of “openness.”
You’ll forgive me, but I have to say it: what a load of crap.
In theory, I’m right there with you. The thought of a truly open mobile operating system is very appealing. The problem is that in practice, that’s just simply not the reality of the situation. Maybe if Google had their way, the system would be truly open. But they don’t. Sadly, they have to deal with a very big roadblock: the carriers.
The result of this unfortunate situation is that the so-called open system is quickly revealing itself to be anything but. Further, we’re starting to see that in some cases the carriers may actually be able to exploit this “openness” to create a closed system that may leave you crying for Apple’s closed system — at least theirs looks good and behaves as expected.
Case in point: the last couple of Android phones I’ve gotten as demo units from Google: the EVO 4G and the Droid 2, have been loaded up with crapware installed by the carriers (Sprint and Verizon, respectively). Apple would never let this fly on the iPhone, but the openness of Android means Google has basically no say in the matter. Consumers will get the crapware and they’ll like it. Not only that, plenty of this junk can’t even be uninstalled. How’s that for “open”?
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Earlier this year, Verizon rolled out its own V Cast app store on some BlackBerry devices. This occurred despite that fact that BlackBerry devices have their own app store (App World). From what we’re hearing, Verizon is also planning to launch this store on their Android phones as well in the future. Obviously, this store would be pre-installed, and it would likely be more prominently displayed than Android’s own Market for apps.
Does V Cast have some good content? Probably. But most of it is undoubtedly crap that Verizon is trying to sell you for a high fee. But who cares whether it’s great or it’s crap — isn’t the point of “open” supposed to be that the consumer can choose what they want on their own devices? Instead, open is proving to mean that the carriers can choose what they want to do with Android.
It’s too bad, but there is now a very real risk that the carriers are going to exploit the open system Google set up in order to create a new version of the bull**** proprietary ecosystems that they had before the iPhone came along and turned the market on its side.
And it’s not just Verizon, it’s all the carriers. One of the great features of Android is that you can install apps without going through an app store, right? Well, not if you have an a Motorola Backflip or a HTC Aria running on AT&T — they’ve locked this feature down. How? Thanks to the open Android OS.
Oh, and how about tethering? It’s one of the truly great features of Android 2.2, right? Well, not if you have a carrier that doesn’t want to support it. Google has to defer to them to enable their own native OS feature. It’s such an awesome feature — in the hands of Google. Once the carriers get their hands on it — not so much.
Speaking of Android 2.2, you know it’s out there right? You’ll be forgiven if you don’t because a whopping 4.5 percent of you Android users are currently running it, according to Google’s dashboard. And again, that’s not Google’s fault, that’s all the carriers. Incredibly, over 35 percent of you still aren’t even running any version of Android 2.x. It’s pathetic.
Apple gets crap for not supporting phones that are three years old with OS updates — the open Android system can’t even upgrade phones that are only a few months old in some cases — again, all thanks to the carriers.
The excuses for why this is run rampant. They need to tweak their custom skins, they need to test the new software, etc. It’s all a bunch of garbage. This is an open platform and yet you’re more restricted than on Apple’s supposedly closed one.
What happens when Verizon won’t update your phone to the latest greatest Android software — not because they can’t, but because they want you to upgrade to a new piece of hardware and sign the new two-year agreement that comes along with it? The game remains the same.
My point is not to bash Google — what they’ve created is an excellent mobile operating system. My point is that the same “openness” that Android users are touting as a key selling point of the OS could very well end up being its weak point. If you don’t think Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint are going to try to commandeer the OS in an attempt to return to their glory days where we were all slaves to their towers, you’re being naive.
“Open” is great until you have to define it or defend it. I’m not sure Google can continue to do either in this situation.
And before all of you pros storm the comments with how great it is to root your Android phones, consider the average consumers here. They are the ones being screwed by this exploitation of “open.” Anyone with the desire to do so can fairly easily hack an iPhone too. Open is not a reason to choose Android + carrier vs. iPhone + AT&T.
Update: Oh, and one more great example Michael Prassel reminded me of in the comments — do you want Skype on your Android phone? Well, I hope you have Verizon because otherwise you won’t be able to install it. “Open.” We’re only going to see more of this, not less.
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MG Siegler is a piece of trash. All his articles about Android are flame-bait garbage.
Look for his other gems such as:
Is Android Surging Only Because Apple Is Letting It?
http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/05/apple-android/
Wait, So 20 Phones On 4 Carriers Outsold 1 Phone On 1 Carrier? Shocking.
http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/02/iphone-android-sales/​
Clearly he's gone off the deep-end and is upset that Android has surpassed his oh-so beloved iphone. So now he results to attacking Android like a 3 year old.
I no longer read Tech Crunch. And you should too if you want unbiased news, which you obviously won't get from this Apple fanboy flamer.
Pure trash.

Paul22000 said:
MG Siegler is a piece of trash. All his articles about Android are flame-bait garbage.
Look for his other gems such as:
Is Android Surging Only Because Apple Is Letting It?
http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/05/apple-android/
Wait, So 20 Phones On 4 Carriers Outsold 1 Phone On 1 Carrier? Shocking.
http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/02/iphone-android-sales/​
Clearly he's gone off the deep-end and is upset that Android has surpassed his oh-so beloved iphone. So now he results to attacking Android like a 3 year old.
I no longer read Tech Crunch. And you should too if you want unbiased news, which you obviously won't get from this Apple fanboy flamer.
Pure trash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if he is an iphone lover, this particular post has some validity. The carriers really are screwing android over. My brother recently bought a Droid X with verizon and asked me to help him root cause he has absolutely no clue on how to do it. He wanted tethering because verizon, like ATnT is charging extra if you want to use tethering natively. So I went a head and root his phone and the phone is nice by all means, but V-Cast was an annoying piece of sh*t that pops up NO MATTER what when you connect your phone to your PC. For users like you and I who do know how to root and reap the benefits then its no problem because we can just ADB remove everything we dont like. But what about for people like my brother? They are stuck with ****ware and functionality like tethering that SHOULD be basic and free, but are forced to pay for if they want to use it. My 2cents, go figure.

Paul22000 said:
MG Siegler is a piece of trash. All his articles about Android are flame-bait garbage.
Look for his other gems such as:
Is Android Surging Only Because Apple Is Letting It?
http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/05/apple-android/
Wait, So 20 Phones On 4 Carriers Outsold 1 Phone On 1 Carrier? Shocking.
http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/02/iphone-android-sales/​
Clearly he's gone off the deep-end and is upset that Android has surpassed his oh-so beloved iphone. So now he results to attacking Android like a 3 year old.
I no longer read Tech Crunch. And you should too if you want unbiased news, which you obviously won't get from this Apple fanboy flamer.
Pure trash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might be true (I haven't read his other pieces), but he's spot-on here. The fact that many (MANY) Android phones don't have any planned upgrade paths to Android 2.2 (some are still running Android 1.6!) simply because the carriers or phone manufacturers say so is quite telling. On the other hand, someone with an original iPhone, which is just turning three years old, can update their OS to 4.0 and enjoy at least some of the new features the platform has to offer.
At its core, Android is quite open. I can download the source for Android 2.2 right now, build it and run it on any ARM-compatible device without repercussion. Not so for iPhone OS. However, the experience that users actually care about is practically indifferent from its competitor and theoretically worse because carriers have much more sway in controlling it than AT&T (or any other carrier that receives it) does on the iPhone. (Verizon's future app store is a case-in-point example, especially if it "replaces" Android market on the devices that will be getting it.)

Zephyron said:
But what about for people like my brother? They are stuck with ****ware and functionality like tethering that SHOULD be basic and free, but are forced to pay for if they want to use it. My 2cents, go figure.
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Click to collapse
Everybody has got to start somehwere.

typ_ex said:
Everybody has got to start somehwere.
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Click to collapse
That is also true, my brother was just being a lazy ass

This is one of the reasons why carriers love Android.
Yes, it's as open as it can get.
Yes, its openness is exploited by carriers, forcing devices to be lacking functionality / installing bloatware / etc.
These things don't contradict each other.
For a "stupid" end user, there isn't much choice - not all carriers offer vanilla Android devices. On the other hand, the same goes for iPhone - whatever you got there, you got there, whatever apps are supplied by the carrier - you get, if the carrier allows you to tether - it'll make sure you pay for it, and you'll be damn sure you can't install anything unofficial.
For a bit more advanced user, openness is great - once protections are bypassed (and they're bypassed on every device), ROM developers can turn those phones into whatever they want, and since the core of the system is open, you get all the services this core offers you, and carriers can't do a thing.
Not any different from the iPhone that the writer keeps comparing to.
The points are good and true as long as they're taken away from the context of that crappy and intentionally twisted article.

Siegler and arrington are horrible writers, I feel for the other writers at techcrunch because most of the others are good. But any article by those two I take as nothing more then trolling for ad hits, even if somewhere in their crap writing is a few valid points.
If they aren't paid directly by apple they have definite stock interest.

He asks 1000 presumably non-average readers of TechCrunch why THEY chose Android and when they say "openness" he's no longer interested and wants to "consider the average consumer". Who knows what they think dude, they've been buying iPhones, go sit outside a strip mall and ask them? He is essentially arguing with himself here

I'm pretty sure all the people who realize bloatware sucks have the knowledge to do some simple Google searches on how to use ADB.
Just sayin'...
AT&T doesn't put bloatware onto their iPhone's because it's ONLY on AT&T, that in itself is a crime. I guarantee once iPhone is available on other carriers it will have some sort of crap on it... and it won't be removable at all.
You don't even have to root your Android phone to remove crap

In the UK the iPhone is available on all carriers, and there is nothing added to any of them, it's the same ROM for all, how it should be. It's one thing Apple have done right.

Rusty! said:
In the UK the iPhone is available on all carriers, and there is nothing added to any of them, it's the same ROM for all, how it should be. It's one thing Apple have done right.
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Click to collapse
Really? Well I take back what I said then.
Even though it SHOULDN'T be this way at all. Carriers can do what the hell they want. At least I have a choice between many phones other than just one.
Meh, maybe Gingerbread will change things. I don't think bloatware deteriorates the OS as a whole.. I just think it shouldn't be there... and it's very easy to remove anyway.

Rusty! said:
In the UK the iPhone is available on all carriers, and there is nothing added to any of them, it's the same ROM for all, how it should be. It's one thing Apple have done right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, too bad our botched american system of using cell carriers isnt more similar to the way the rest of the world does it. Then everyone would be happi...(er)

Rusty! said:
In the UK the iPhone is available on all carriers, and there is nothing added to any of them, it's the same ROM for all, how it should be. It's one thing Apple have done right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do the android phones have carrier bloat in them or are they as vanilla as the iphones?

Blueman101 said:
Yeah, too bad our botched american system of using cell carriers isnt more similar to the way the rest of the world does it. Then everyone would be happi...(er)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Free enterprise system at its finest!
EDIT: Not sayin' everyone else is commie....

Before getting a Nexus One, i made sure i researched what android OS is and even bought a used MT3G to root the hell out of it, unroot it, flash radios do all sorts of crap to it and learn as much as i want and now i can say i am pretty confident and things have gotten easier than before.
To get an android phone for my wife i have to wait 2-3 months after a phone is released to see how much support it gets from the community that is how sad android has turned into, the nexus one is great because is open, however i will not expect samsung, lg or any carrier having the intentions on supporting old phones because they don't make money.
If carriers keep butchering android people may start looking the other way.

SiNJiN76 said:
Do the android phones have carrier bloat in them or are they as vanilla as the iphones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android phones get bloatware/branding
O2 still haven't released 2.2 for the Desire over here, and Vodafone were in the middle of a huge ****storm when they released a branding OTA update when everyone was expecting Froyo.
Buying your own SIM free phone is the way forward.

greenstuffs said:
To get an android phone for my wife i have to wait 2-3 months after a phone is released to see how much support it gets from the community that is how sad android has turned into,
If carriers keep butchering android people may start looking the other way.
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Click to collapse
Totally agree.
I would even argue that Android is worse, because you need to root in order to get the most out of it. That's the same as jailbreaking the iPhone (and at least you know that the hacking community for the iphone is going to be huge)

not necessarily, android(non-rooted) lets you do so much more then a jalbroken iphone.
I will give the author credit for calling out Android's "openness", much like the recent net neutrality things going around, the word "open" is an absolute, something that Android is very close to but still isn't 100%. But still a hell of a lot more open the Apples Draconian Totalitarianism system of ruling its users.
What bugs me about this author is his constant smear campaign about android. I can understand not liking something but really?! This guy writes article after article holding Apple in the light and scorning Android for something, then what happens, all the Apple fans ***** and moan about this feature that Android has had for months if not years, then Apple takes that idea calls it revolutionary, markets the hell out of it, then this author writes an article about how Apple is even better with this new feature that he just condemned on the Android platform.

Android is open. Open does not mean it is easy for users to modify nor does it mean that products made over Android has to be open. Anyone can download the source and do what they will with android. Cyanogenmod is an example of a group of users doing what they want with AOSP. Similarly a phone manufacturer or wireless carrier can do whatever they want with it. What people seem to misunderstand is that the manufacturer and carrier are under no obligation to make it easy (or even possible) to modify the android install on a device or use the modifications they create.
This choice was on purpose. If Google went with GPL (forcing the carriers to open their modifications) it would not have been taken up by the carriers. You can argue if this is reasonable but the fact remains the conservative carriers would not take up a GPLd OS at this time. This does not mean the OS is not open, it simply means that the product that is created by a carrier is not in the control of the user.

i noticed one thing about apple fanboys

ok guys lol dont really want this to become a rant but its pushing itself that way. anyone notice when u try to have a valid debate about features or capabilities with a apple fan boy it always goes like this,
appleboy: yeah but the ipads got things android cant do like .....video editing,
androidboy: the androids actually got that from stock plus a whole load of imaging apps that came with the tab, I dont have to buy extra software.
appleboy: yeah but ours is better! pinch to zoom!!112!! haha
(android waits patiently)
androidboy: thats your arguement? but in fact the android system will run the......appleboy blurts in: NO NO NO IOS IOS IOS NO NO I HAVE EMAIL TOO..funz >)
anyone ever notice how androids will have a calm actual debate, apple's just blurt insane immature crap that shows most of them dont know feck all about using a computer?
tried telling them about open-source......between the two of them they somehow worked out that the IPAD was the more advanced device then the a500., from these "reasons"
in the youtube app you can move your finger to change volume......really?!
apparently some ipad users think the fact its harder to fully unlock a ipad for development, so that must mean its a more advanced device.....?
you can use a usb cable to add accessories....
tried showing em i have a usb port no need to carry a cable, and i can use most windows accessories keyboard,mice,external hard-drive,etc etc but nope apparently adding 1 usb keyboard....is somehow better then adding a keyboard as well as mouse, exterhd,dvd-drive. etc etc....????
i tried telling them about the specs side by side, and how my android mobile "phone" not even my best device (the tab is)
1.has more processing power then the ipad,.
2.better camera front and back
3.other features are basically matching (gps bluetooth wifi,....etc)
4. more configurable
5. same ram
but mine was half the price of your tab and phone..
they just dont get it, im saying to him look mate if you went to pc world and had
1 computer that was complete rubbish low speed, low ram,. windows 95
costs £20000^^
1 computer that has 3ghz high speed quad-core , 4gb ram, windows 7, dvd drive, usb ports, bigger screen, fully outwards compatible "usb play n go keyboard mice, bluetooth, gps etc"
costs £750^^
what would you buy? lol its not a hard one is it, im trying to show, look ios could have been THE best pads and phones,,,,if apple didnt own them and you got the full bang in your buck, i mean if they had ipad with the spec's of an android with the price tag of an android and open source,. android probably would even have gotten as far as it has today but that's good old apple business techniques for ya eh?
to be honest what im trying to say is you can tell a hundred things that are very worth having to a apple fanboy and they will say the ipads better because,
A. YA ITZ GoT LiKe slide volume oN yuTUbe....SO dARRR iPaDZ bEtteR !
b. tHErs Must HAve APPPPP for ThAt And iTSR bETTer Dan URS even THou I neSER SEEN, heard, Or UUsed SuCH app. IOS IS KEWlz
can anyone actually tell me an advantage the ios has? like what things can it actually do we cant?

in fear of this becoming a hate thread im basically asking for the things that the ios does that android cannot.

chismay said:
in fear of this becoming a hate thread im basically asking for the things that the ios does that android cannot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*crickets* *crickets*

gears177 said:
*crickets* *crickets*
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Click to collapse
yeah i think this is the confirmation i was after, this post had nearly 120 views in the first half hour. no can tell me something an apple can do that android cant,.
in the words of my main bitc* hatty-may pierce......baby the truth shall set you free.

Get more game developer support due to its much lower rate of app piracy.
Consistency in its UI across all its devices.
Consistency in its hardware making development somewhat easier in that the developers know exactly which devices will be supported and how well it will run -- see: the post in general of a guy complaining developers have seemingly abandoned tegra 2.
Not risking an app in the appstore spamming your notifications or doing other insanely annoying things.
A jailbreak and theming community that, while does allow piracy, also supports independent developers, fiscally, through official cydia repos.
Get the stupid "with friends" games long before Android does. How am I supposed to play matching with friends with my android friends!?!?
Have upteen thousand third party home appliances that support (the soon old) iOS docking port. My SONY surround sound system came with an iPhone dock, as did my Murano.
OS updates that rarely cause fragmentation. I don't know of any apps that will only run on IOS 5 and not 4, and after a upgrade, it's extremely rare to find an app that won't work on the new iOS natively. I've only ever run into it once, and that was with a very niche sound based game.
There. I've played devil's advocate for you. And done so from my CM10 Android tablet. And, of course, none of those were intended to spark an argument. I'm just articulating things that are more intelligent, I hope, rebuttals to your topic. Granted, there are many loaded adjectives in my statements, and things like "rarely" and "upteen thousand" are highly subjective.

Anthony820 said:
Get more game developer support due to its much lower rate of app piracy.
Consistency in its UI across all its devices.
Consistency in its hardware making development somewhat easier in that the developers know exactly which devices will be supported and how well it will run -- see: the post in general of a guy complaining developers have seemingly abandoned tegra 2.
Not risking an app in the appstore spamming your notifications or doing other insanely annoying things.
A jailbreak and theming community that, while does allow piracy, also supports independent developers, fiscally, through official cydia repos.
Get the stupid "with friends" games long before Android does. How am I supposed to play matching with friends with my android friends!?!?
Have upteen thousand third party home appliances that support (the soon old) iOS docking port. My SONY surround sound system came with an iPhone dock, as did my Murano.
OS updates that rarely cause fragmentation. I don't know of any apps that will only run on IOS 5 and not 4, and after a upgrade, it's extremely rare to find an app that won't work on the new iOS natively. I've only ever run into it once, and that was with a very niche sound based game.
There. I've played devil's advocate for you. And done so from my CM10 Android tablet. And, of course, none of those were intended to spark an argument. I'm just articulating things that are more intelligent, I hope, rebuttals to your topic. Granted, there are many loaded adjectives in my statements, and things like "rarely" and "upteen thousand" are highly subjective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nah thats all fair and well but open to debate it must be
i have no idea what "with friends" games are?
be honest though how many of those above really are good points?
updates that dont really improve your system, hardware that's cost is doubled.? and ol' fact of no singularity?
i-tunes? can you add a single track now? are do you still need to re-upload a whole playlist? i still cannot get me head around the fact you cant just download an mp3 and set it as a ringtone on the i-phone,.lol

chismay said:
nah thats all fair and well but open to debate it must be
i have no idea what "with friends" games are?
be honest though how many of those above really are good points?
updates that dont really improve your system, hardware that's cost is doubled.? and ol' fact of no singularity?
i-tunes? can you ass a single track ? are do you still need to re-upload a whole playlist? i still cannot get me head around the fact you can't just download an mp3 and set it as a ringtone on the i-phone,.lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i guess when it comes down t it there's pros and cons for both i mean for apple every device under 4.3.5 ios allows an exploit known as ssl MITM attack...plus the QuickTime pop ups that happen when an app wants to use gps and will crash the app most the time if you hit no are kind of annoying (not sure if that one is still there) But even the rooting/jail breaking part of it when an android user gains root he can flash new roms kernels gain su in terminal etc not really having to worry about malware apple on the other hand has a higher rate of malware on jailbrocken ipods.. last thing I'm going to say about apple is that there jail breaking methods exploit security holes that may also bee exploited for darker reasons, there was an example in the iphone pdf parser which allowed a document to execute code....
For android there are way higher rates of piracy unfortuently there's alot of cheapy tablets with almost no support the different kinds an sizes create huge compatabillity issues the OTA updates aren't always reliable or even where you live.....i guess that's all i have they both have pros and cons I'm just an android fanboy and can't stand apple products :laugh:
cheers i hope this doesn't cause arguments just wanted to add some more info and try not to play favorites while debating

gears177 said:
i guess when it comes down t it there's pros and cons for both i mean for apple every device under 4.3.5 ios allows an exploit known as ssl MITM attack...plus the QuickTime pop ups that happen when an app wants to use gps and will crash the app most the time if you hit no are kind of annoying (not sure if that one is still there) But even the rooting/jail breaking part of it when an android user gains root he can flash new roms kernels gain su in terminal etc not really having to worry about malware apple on the other hand has a higher rate of malware on jailbrocken ipods.. last thing I'm going to say about apple is that there jail breaking methods exploit security holes that may also bee exploited for darker reasons, there was an example in the iphone pdf parser which allowed a document to execute code....
For android there are way higher rates of piracy unfortuently there's alot of cheapy tablets with almost no support the different kinds an sizes create huge compatabillity issues the OTA updates aren't always reliable or even where you live.....i guess that's all i have they both have pros and cons I'm just an android fanboy and can't stand apple products :laugh:
cheers i hope this doesn't cause arguments just wanted to add some more info and try not to play favorites while debating
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in no way causing arguments matey, im trying to approach the question without prejudiced, i am at heart an android, ive had an apple i had one of the gen1 i-phones, and the thing never stopped frezzing and rebooting, never had a signal, etc.
i know android can run terribly if not implemented properly by the developer, force closes wifi problems gps problems, but this is the USUAL cost when using a customization based open source system, when applied to that much diversity you would have to be stupid to think you wont run into errors. <--not directed at anyone, just generally.
example i have to calculators
one adds 2 numbers thats it,
the second has wifi, a 3ghz proc' 1 gb ram, hd video playback a camera and bluetooth and a projector on the back the maker also says you can make any application you want for YOUR device, its open for you to change what you want for how you like........im expecting some errors here n there. lol
the thing is if thats the view of point you arrive from decides if everyone having the same devices is either a good thing or a bad thing.......or should we say BAAAAAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAAAAAA BAAAAD thing lol
lets continue,
edit: wow this thread got 150 views over night? please guys participate but this is not a thread for ranting more of actually facing facts from both sides and submitting your input to what makes which os more functional / better performing etc etc and what features are more for you.

I think you are generalizing when it comes to this. I've met the worst fan boys when it comes to both android and apple. I actually recall this dude I knew jumping for joy when he found out Steve Jobs died...
Anyway I've used both, I used an iphone4 for about a year before switching back to android.
I feel that ios was way smoother (although now I'm using a galaxy s3, I can say android is on par with it) I miss the variety of apps that ios had to offer and android fan boys try to shoot back by saying android has more free apps but honestly, I'm willing to pay for apps if they're of quality.
I felt the music player was a tad bit better.. I've downloaded a game and for some reason all the audio files showed up on my music player on my DROID Pro(maybe it was something I did wrong?)
I actually felt like I got the most out of my iphone once I jail broke it. It was the little tweaks that I was able to do that really made the experience with ios a whole lot better. The sad thing about this though is that I had to jail break it just to have some features that were standard on Android.
But at the end of the day, like I said, it's the apps.. I use my phone for calls, text, music, and Internet. Basic features all smartphones include.. It's the apps, the games, utilities, the variety that ios offers in apps that I miss.
One more thing, I never understood why people hate apple products. They make solid products.. I guess people just need to pick a side.. You got Ford vs Chevy, imports vs domestics, windows vs mac os, android vs apple, ipod vs zune(lol) etc etc
Sent from my Atari 2600 using Tapatalk 2

chismay said:
yeah i think this is the confirmation i was after, this post had nearly 120 views in the first half hour. no can tell me something an apple can do that android cant,.
in the words of my main bitc* hatty-may pierce......baby the truth shall set you free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An Apple device, can make your wallet thinner :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Moscow Desire said:
An Apple device, can make your wallet thinner :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha yes i forget about this one XD tho cost is to high for what there asking for

Did any of you guys read this interview with Steve Wozniak?
Sorry, I can't post the link to the full interview (long time lurker, first time poster). Just google for 'Woz on Android'.
Basically he loves the iPhone for the design and loves Android for what it can do!
Below is an excerpt of that interview. For me that says it all!
But Woz says he still recommends the iPhone as the best choice for most users. “The people I recommend the iPhone 4S for are the ones who are already in the Mac world, because it’s so compatible, and people who are just scared of computers altogether and don’t want to use them. The iPhone is the least frightening thing. For that kind of person who is scared of complexity, well, here’s a phone that is simple to use and does what you need it to do,” he says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

MO3iusONE said:
I think you are generalizing when it comes to this. I've met the worst fan boys when it comes to both android and apple. I actually recall this dude I knew jumping for joy when he found out Steve Jobs died...
Anyway I've used both, I used an iphone4 for about a year before switching back to android.
I feel that ios was way smoother (although now I'm using a galaxy s3, I can say android is on par with it) I miss the variety of apps that ios had to offer and android fan boys try to shoot back by saying android has more free apps but honestly, I'm willing to pay for apps if they're of quality.
I felt the music player was a tad bit better.. I've downloaded a game and for some reason all the audio files showed up on my music player on my DROID Pro(maybe it was something I did wrong?)
I actually felt like I got the most out of my iphone once I jail broke it. It was the little tweaks that I was able to do that really made the experience with ios a whole lot better. The sad thing about this though is that I had to jail break it just to have some features that were standard on Android.
But at the end of the day, like I said, it's the apps.. I use my phone for calls, text, music, and Internet. Basic features all smartphones include.. It's the apps, the games, utilities, the variety that ios offers in apps that I miss.
One more thing, I never understood why people hate apple products. They make solid products.. I guess people just need to pick a side.. You got Ford vs Chevy, imports vs domestics, windows vs mac os, android vs apple, ipod vs zune(lol) etc etc
Sent from my Atari 2600 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
those point are valid, i dont mind paying for an app as long as it works. but ive noticed a large amount of apps for ios that dont actually do as described. like telling you one thing and you get something else.
about apple and solid product, no, this is the thing most people will confuse about me personally ,.....the ipad and phone COULD have been the greatest device ever,,,,,if:
A.you actually got a product on par with the price your paying
B. You bought it, you own it, you do what u want with it. not apples way
C. You wasnt forced to use the brands own very poor software to upload even a simple ringtone, i seriously dont get that....,,, oh wait i do you have to pay....not just for music but pay apple to get that music,. since when was apple my personal certified music agent?....self injected by apple very sneaky
D. apple products have had many of they're fair share of design flaws, these have just been swept under the carpet though. what about the massive i-4..."yeah the 4rth version" design flaw when you had to stick a rubber bumper on the side to get reception, and yeah you had to buy that rubber bumper ,,,, even though its apple fault.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/some-iphone-4-models-see-signals-drop-to-0-when-held-left-handed/
NOW im not saying thats not a story for the android phones too but heres a small snippet about the htc one wifi problem and how htc went about fixing it for theyre valuable customers:
In addition, HTC is also urging affected users to their call customer support to see if their phone is one of the affected models. If HTC confirms that a user has a phone with the identified hardware flaw, they will issue a replacement device. <---- see the big differences?
other brands : buy a bad product from us we will fix or replace it at no cost you bought the device it should work....srry about that
apple: you bought it from us , its doesnt work.......so pay more money just get what you should already and have payed for,.
these are the things people hate about apple,
apple reminds me of that AOL Representative that wouldnt let that guy cancel his account.,... "well sir I THINK you need your account so im not goin to cancel it..........against your will.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_knvtpENoQ

the one thing that I've come across are all of the software companies in the music industry absolutely LOVE the ipad (as does every musician, producer, etc. LOVE and ADORE their iphone). When i show up to gigs, rehearsals, etc... i get tons of glances and weird faces at my android. most people have no idea that it's faster and more capable.. yada yada yada. (phone is a GNex running jb)
But, whether it be large VST firms like Spectrasonics, Native Instruments, Arturia, etc. etc, or even hints from the bigger guys like ableton, protools (avid), and logic, all have ipad apps to make the ipad "the next instrument". you see all the time on youtube videos of 'ipad bands' and all that crap. it's really stupid! lol.
There are things like actual synths on ios (arturia) to realtime hardware synth integration to add extras (like oscilators, filters, etc) to even Moog synths! (which is totally awesome!). There are software synth helpers and controllers too, whether they be third party or directly from the manufacturer (like Spectrasonic's Orb).
This is very frustrating though, with android there's almost nothing out there. the best i have so far is a few midi controller apps (like touch osc, that originated on ios) and jordan rudess' MorphWizz (which he apparently uses live, but it feels like a toy).
I'm annoyed that 1. the music world is going to this, making everything feel chincy and kinda cheep (adding to the 'there's an app for that!' ;-s), but 2. that there's NOTHING for Android!
If I'm wrong, and there's stuff out there... PLEASE let me know. I'm using touch osc live on my a500 to control ableton, but i would love more apps for it!
oh yeah, one more thing. i also have a macbook pro (17 inch mother of a screen). i purchased it because of this problem. yes there are many production and synth programs on windows... but, NO, they hardly ever work well and i found that stability was 50/50 live. Had to go apple. To be honest, was hesitant, but i've enjoyed it. And apple fan boys, it's not perfect, it's not God, and it does crash.... albeit not as much as my Dell lol.
great community for the good 'ol a500!

LMFAO talk about ios and theyre GREAT APPS?
how about this a $1000 app that does nothing but shows a picture of a gem and a sentance
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I-APPS MY ASS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os2axzJHbzA&feature=related

kylereid said:
the one thing that I've come across are all of the software companies in the music industry absolutely LOVE the ipad (as does every musician, producer, etc. LOVE and ADORE their iphone). When i show up to gigs, rehearsals, etc... i get tons of glances and weird faces at my android. most people have no idea that it's faster and more capable.. yada yada yada. (phone is a GNex running jb)
But, whether it be large VST firms like Spectrasonics, Native Instruments, Arturia, etc. etc, or even hints from the bigger guys like ableton, protools (avid), and logic, all have ipad apps to make the ipad "the next instrument". you see all the time on youtube videos of 'ipad bands' and all that crap. it's really stupid! lol.
There are things like actual synths on ios (arturia) to realtime hardware synth integration to add extras (like oscilators, filters, etc) to even Moog synths! (which is totally awesome!). There are software synth helpers and controllers too, whether they be third party or directly from the manufacturer (like Spectrasonic's Orb).
This is very frustrating though, with android there's almost nothing out there. the best i have so far is a few midi controller apps (like touch osc, that originated on ios) and jordan rudess' MorphWizz (which he apparently uses live, but it feels like a toy).
I'm annoyed that 1. the music world is going to this, making everything feel chincy and kinda cheep (adding to the 'there's an app for that!' ;-s), but 2. that there's NOTHING for Android!
If I'm wrong, and there's stuff out there... PLEASE let me know. I'm using touch osc live on my a500 to control ableton, but i would love more apps for it!
oh yeah, one more thing. i also have a macbook pro (17 inch mother of a screen). i purchased it because of this problem. yes there are many production and synth programs on windows... but, NO, they hardly ever work well and i found that stability was 50/50 live. Had to go apple. To be honest, was hesitant, but i've enjoyed it. And apple fan boys, it's not perfect, it's not God, and it does crash.... albeit not as much as my Dell lol.
great community for the good 'ol a500!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats great info i myself as a "not even semi-pro" music dj'er i have used abletone, native, etc an yeah i did find that more was supported by ios,
But is that the O/S's fault or the developers?

chismay said:
LMFAO talk about ios and theyre GREAT APPS?
how about this a $1000 app that does nothing but shows a picture of a gem and a sentance
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I-APPS MY ASS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os2axzJHbzA&feature=related
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Your gonna bring up an app that was released four years ago and that was pulled Immediately by Apple? Your a funny guy. You know it's bad when it's recommend to install some kind of anti virus software for your phone. I don't want to start arguing but the proof is in the pudding, ios has more apps, a wider selection and overall better apps, even if you have to pay for them.
Sent from my Atari 2600 using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------
chismay said:
those point are valid, i dont mind paying for an app as long as it works. but ive noticed a large amount of apps for ios that dont actually do as described. like telling you one thing and you get something else.
about apple and solid product, no, this is the thing most people will confuse about me personally ,.....the ipad and phone COULD have been the greatest device ever,,,,,if:
A.you actually got a product on par with the price your paying
B. You bought it, you own it, you do what u want with it. not apples way
C. You wasnt forced to use the brands own very poor software to upload even a simple ringtone, i seriously dont get that....,,, oh wait i do you have to pay....not just for music but pay apple to get that music,. since when was apple my personal certified music agent?....self injected by apple very sneaky
D. apple products have had many of they're fair share of design flaws, these have just been swept under the carpet though. what about the massive i-4..."yeah the 4rth version" design flaw when you had to stick a rubber bumper on the side to get reception, and yeah you had to buy that rubber bumper ,,,, even though its apple fault.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/some-iphone-4-models-see-signals-drop-to-0-when-held-left-handed/
NOW im not saying thats not a story for the android phones too but heres a small snippet about the htc one wifi problem and how htc went about fixing it for theyre valuable customers:
In addition, HTC is also urging affected users to their call customer support to see if their phone is one of the affected models. If HTC confirms that a user has a phone with the identified hardware flaw, they will issue a replacement device. <---- see the big differences?
other brands : buy a bad product from us we will fix or replace it at no cost you bought the device it should work....srry about that
apple: you bought it from us , its doesnt work.......so pay more money just get what you should already and have payed for,.
these are the things people hate about apple,
apple reminds me of that AOL Representative that wouldnt let that guy cancel his account.,... "well sir I THINK you need your account so im not goin to cancel it..........against your will.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_knvtpENoQ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the whole ring tone, buying a song off itunes is one thing but not being able to set it as a ring tone is just plain obsurd.. Who knows maybe they'll offer it as a feature in one of their updates ha ha ha ha.. I also don't like how finicky the iphone is when it comes to trying to play videos on it... With my galaxy s3 I just drag and drop and it plays pretty much any video format I have.
I thought both the iphone and ipad were priced decently. My galaxy s3 cost just as much as an iphone4.. I mean how much was a motorola xoom when it came out? Roughly the same amount as an ipad think.
I'm really not trying to argue, we can go back and forth all day, iphone had reception issues, a few of the nexus line of phones has screen issues, it happens.. Although people seem to be a bit more harsh when it's apple.. I remember I had an HTC evo, phone worked fine but the software had a bug.. there was a known android bug where I would click on a text but it would send me to a different contact, me unknowingly would shoot out the text and by the time I realized someone else had gotten the text... It was too late.. I had a lot of embarrassing moments because of this. I know apple had that one clock bug where it didn't update to daylights savings time... Everybody has problems..no company's is perfect... I don't know what I'm getting with this really, I'm a neutral guy. I use both os's, they both have their pros and cons... That's all I gotta say.
Sent from my Atari 2600 using Tapatalk 2

chismay said:
thats great info i myself as a "not even semi-pro" music dj'er i have used abletone, native, etc an yeah i did find that more was supported by ios,
But is that the O/S's fault or the developers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed, but as we've seen with Flipboard and every other popular ios app, is android support THAT much different? lol

Moscow Desire said:
An Apple device, can make your wallet thinner :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there's an APP for that too!

kylereid said:
agreed, but as we've seen with Flipboard and every other popular ios app, is android support THAT much different? lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i read somewhere that the reason why iOS had such great dj'ing and music apps is sound processing. nobody can deny ipods have the greatest sound, better than any portable music player. apple took that and added it to the pads and phones. dunno if it's a software or hardware thing, but it's there. with jellybean now out i thought that might change a bit but i have not seen anything about it yet.
btw some Apple fanboys that i know are actually happy that Google fixed the fragmentation and wrote the gpu code from scratch. as another user said in earlier post, the OSes are paired in performance now.
Sent from my Abacus using Android

Top Windows Phone 8 Features you Should know!

I cannot write such a big one here so directly posting the link.
http://winappleworld.com/top-windows-phone-8-features-you-should-know/
WHats your catch about it?
Better then Android??
Put in your thoughts in that Website's comment.
More people will get the information and reviews

You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.

Dr.Paul said:
You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why come here and post about it? that is considered trolling. We like it, so don't care about your opinion.

WP8 has a lot of going for it. They need more app support, then it can go head to head with android.

gilesjuk said:
Why come here and post about it? that is considered trolling. We like it, so don't care about your opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The op asked for opinions. Microsoft also asks (even if they don't listen) for opinions. Expressing an opinion different to your own is not trolling.
That said...
I like the kids corner thing... really its multi user mode. I just don't think it is a bullet point for 99% of consumers. I watch parents hand their phones to their kids for entertainment every day. Its a nice feature to have multi user environments but needs a better selling job from ms. Think "risque photos on a girls phone, being handed to dad, to make a phonecall" , yes , there is a win.
The features that other phones have had aren't really a huge selling point, if wp just implemented them. It comes across as 'me too!'
If people dont notice the new home screen, its not "new" enough. Having to point out that a puppy has "really floppy cute ears, see !" Means they aren't a big deal, or aren't floppy or cute, or NEW enough. That part is painful to watch. I really felt sorry for the salesman in the wp videos on youtube.
If noticed though, that the latest youtube channel videos are playing on the "smoked" promotion idea. Sending a text message 3 seconds faster (or other very practiced objectives by the host) is a yawner now. It was funny at first with 'smoked' but the stacking of the deck spoiled the fun, people resented it. Guess Microsoft's advertising dollars are learning, and persistant, even to a fault.

Dr.Paul said:
You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're delusional. You also obviously are missing the entire point of a mobile experience. They can all have the same features across the board, the implementation is the key focus here. Windows Phone is a joy and ease to use. iPhone is extremely simple to use, but the potential and implementation of it's features are a headache. The ONLY thing that those other two platforms may have over Windows Phone is the marketshare and mindshare to utilize their potentials. Once specific WinPhone8 apps begin to come out, and I mean REAL apps utilizing the new developer features, then you'll see this come to the forefront even more. Android can clean me after a bowel movement, doesn't mean it isn't the most inefficient OS ever created, REQUIRING multiple cores to even be close to the fluidity of Windows Phone. I got honest with myself and said "do I really need the ability to install multiple file explorers on my phone?"

FiyaFleye said:
You're delusional. You also obviously are missing the entire point of a mobile experience. They can all have the same features across the board, the implementation is the key focus here. Windows Phone is a joy and ease to use. iPhone is extremely simple to use, but the potential and implementation of it's features are a headache. The ONLY thing that those other two platforms may have over Windows Phone is the marketshare and mindshare to utilize their potentials. Once specific WinPhone8 apps begin to come out, and I mean REAL apps utilizing the new developer features, then you'll see this come to the forefront even more. Android can clean me after a bowel movement, doesn't mean it isn't the most inefficient OS ever created, REQUIRING multiple cores to even be close to the fluidity of Windows Phone. I got honest with myself and said "do I really need the ability to install multiple file explorers on my phone?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
edit... wait a second, they all have the same features ? really ? cmon man, its ok to be a fan, but that's rediculonk.
don't worry, android is peaking now, and wp or ios will have 70+ marketshare next. that should be just in time for wp9 or 9.5
will wp be ready, or will ios whoop em again ?

C'mon ohgood, your reading skills are better than that, I said "they all can" focusing on the fact that the experience is the main issue. WP does not lack in any necessary consumer feature
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express

You don't have to have wp8 device to use "rooms" It's coming to android & ios also.

FiyaFleye said:
C'mon ohgood, your reading skills are better than that, I said "they all can" focusing on the fact that the experience is the main issue. WP does not lack in any necessary consumer feature
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahhh, "they all can" as in a comparison, not "they all do". sorry, I missed that the first time. gotit.
the rest was "chicken before the egg, which is first" as far as developers go. I was serious in the question as to whether wp9 will be ready when android share starts declining. the developers and mindshare needs to be priority number 1 right now at microsoft campuses.
given past quotes from microsoft, wp8 was in develope
ment when wp7 was released. hopefully wp9 is well underway, tiles have been rethunk, along with opening the platform up and feeding devs everything NOW. (sorry for the run on)
might be a good idea to keep all these wp8 early adopters in mind too... hard to get folks to walk across the same burning bridge twice.

Mate even i have an iPhone 5
Dr.Paul said:
You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Dr.Paul said:
You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used a GSIII for about 26 days, it was easily the worst experience I've had on a mobile device. Before you ask yes it was on the stock AT&T ROM. Bloatware everywhere and applications wouldn't be in alphabetical order. It felt unorganized and not uniform to me, I must have OCD and require theme colors lol.
Personally found myself using my phone a lot less when I had the GSIII then when I had my Lumia 920 in just the day to day of whipping it out and messing around with it. Also Skype never worked consistently on the GSIII that was a real pain.
In a side note most reviewers said you have to use two hands on the 920...I single hand it constantly with no issues whatsoever. Guess my hands are freakishly strong or I'm not a little girl.

Mister Locke said:
Used a GSIII for about 26 days, it was easily the worst experience I've had on a mobile device. Before you ask yes it was on the stock AT&T ROM. Bloatware everywhere and applications wouldn't be in alphabetical order. It felt unorganized and not uniform to me, I must have OCD and require theme colors lol.
Personally found myself using my phone a lot less when I had the GSIII then when I had my Lumia 920 in just the day to day of whipping it out and messing around with it. Also Skype never worked consistently on the GSIII that was a real pain.
In a side note most reviewers said you have to use two hands on the 920...I single hand it constantly with no issues whatsoever. Guess my hands are freakishly strong or I'm not a little girl.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apps in alphabetical order on the S3? Tap menu, view mode, alphabetical. Done. Should have read the manual.
Bloat ware? Load the standard rom. Done.

Dr.Paul said:
Bloat ware? Load the standard rom. Done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which requires rooting your phone in the process, thus voiding your warranty.
This is why Android sucks. You should never make such a significant change for your device to work. Never.

Dr.Paul said:
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am kidding
Data sense - will be there soon
Kids corner - great feature with two kids in the house using our phones to play games
Ie10 - useful and will grow
Rooms - useful with growing number of friends and family owning a WP8 device
Wallet and NFC - useful
Work flow and voice - finally on WP and so much better than on android
I'm extremely satisfied with wp8 and the numbers and sales show that it is and will be very competitive. I used an LG Quantum and what a delight the Lumia 920 is over that. And yes, I am a troll and I am someone talking from experience.
Major move Microsoft. Wp8 is totally competitive.
My point here is that your opinion has nothing to do with decent evaluation. Just using the word "useless" to describe a feature's downside is pretty useless.
cheers

derausgewanderte said:
......the numbers and sales show that it is and will be very competitive.....Major move Microsoft. Wp8 is totally competitive.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you have sales numbers post a link... otherwise, yes enjoy being a fan

ohgood said:
if you have sales numbers post a link... otherwise, yes enjoy being a fan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, never reply to a troll like myself. So where are your numbers then?
and yes, I enjoy being a fan, that's why I'm here....

derausgewanderte said:
LOL, never reply to a troll like myself. So where are your numbers then?
and yes, I enjoy being a fan, that's why I'm here....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't seen any sales numbers yet, so when someone mentions its selling fine.... I ask for numbers

mcosmin222 said:
Which requires rooting your phone in the process, thus voiding your warranty.
This is why Android sucks. You should never make such a significant change for your device to work. Never.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it doesnt.

mcosmin222 said:
Which requires rooting your phone in the process, thus voiding your warranty.
This is why Android sucks. You should never make such a significant change for your device to work. Never.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
root= does not void warrantee. root= full software access, to the user.
...android sucks, never have to make change....
you mean, removing oem installed bloatware is a bad idea ? say it again, OEM INSTALLED BLOATWARE, not operating system bloatware. remember all those laptops / desktops that came preinstalled with norton, from the store? did microsoft install that mess, or did the oem ? hmmm