Database Users

Google's Android - why isnt there more development for this?

http://code.google.com/android/
incase anyones not familiar with android, check that site out.
im not sure why there isnt more development or developers that are going after this in terms of getting it working on all devices? im currently using it on my vogue and its amazing. definately better UI in terms of EVERYTHING. its open source, so i think developers should be all over this! has so much potential its kind of ridiculous
vogue thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265
its working about 80% now thanks to amazing developer martin.
the browser and everything (overall UI) are so much better and smoother than windows mobile! and being that its open source with google ENCOURAGING development of apps and themes and skins and whatnot, i think this is the next best thing to happen to ppc's.
THIS is the actual iphone killer.
just some samples
on a vogue (very smooth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z9bWiAT44
just a demo of the browser (mine is actually a little smoother than this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FpDDEVWtk
the reason im posting this here is because i was the first one to post in this section with manilla2d (when udk first released it), asking whether we can get this on other devices, and look what happened with that. if we can get the amazing developers from here to work on this like they worked on m2d, then wow this will be amazing!

Yeah, even I'm suprised at the low level of excitement of porting this to all devices. Hoping for some real development . Btw, those videos are pretty impressive.
Akshay

Yeah... I'm a little surprised too.
I have a Vogue now, so I'm OK, but I'd love to see somebody pick this project up for the Touch Pro. It seems to be very similar to the G1, so the porting would be a lot more complete than the porting to the Vogue.
Hopefully somebody with the skills (read: not me) will undertake this.

it'll pick up. i say in 6 months to a year people will snap out of the apple app dev craze. but from a dev point of view, apple is where its at right now. the amount of money you could make is a driver by all means.
htc will also be a key part in this. when they start to release better looking hardware, perhaps something on par with the diamond....you'll see a user increase. and user increase translate into dev interest. so just hang in there....i think you'll get what you want soon.

A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes

because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.

S.V.I said:
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
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Of course it is always pointless. We do it because we can (and because we don't want to do anything while at work)
(and much like bluemetal, we are all tired of the same old look and functionality in our WM devices). Then again, it can always be worse....
we could all have iphones
Anyways, I am looking forward to someone porting this to the Blue Angel.

The bigest stumbling block for me is lack of Exchange support. GPS isn't really necessary with the cell tower triangulation available. The accuracy is getting better. It will never be as tight as GPS but close is good enough for me. I can do with out 3G (I wish I had it) I don't enjoy the experience with the little screen. It's like looking at the ocean through a porthole. A 5 inch screen with much better resolution would be great. I use it for quick info but surfing is not fun.
I do like the idea of going linux on the phone. It would be that much closer to having a truely mobile desktop. We wouldn't have to install resource hogging shells that ride on top of an already bloated today screen to get better customization.
I think the biggest problem overall though is the hardware needed will put a lot of older equipment like my little wizard out to pasture. I don't have the funds to rush out an purchase a new phone. And yes I think all the bugs will need to be shaken out for a while before I take the plunge. Maybe by the 2nd or third generation of Android things will be a little less "bleeding edge". It all looks great now but I rely on my phone too much to gamble on an untried system.

To be completely honest, I too am suprised by the lack of progress.
This is a complete replacement for Windows Mobile: something we've all only dreamed about up until now. It will have a wicked Dev community around it soon enough.
There were a hell of a lot of efforts to get the Beta running. But now... nothing?
*so confused
The worst part is, it'd be gorgeous on my LG KS20, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon: no one loves us KS20 owners. Guess you were all just jealous of our drivers.

bluemetalaxe said:
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
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Click to collapse
i don't know if you read my whole post, but i never said "hey everyone lets run something 80% finished on our ppcs."
waiting and hoping isnt going to do anything, thats why i started this thread. to get more attention instead of sitting and waiting for something we arent sure is going to ever happen.
im glad a lot of other people are on the same page as me, wondering why there is barely any development for this. thanks for the support guys
lets get some devs in here to weigh in on this!

Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.

you'd think more people would be starting to port.. because god is that g1 terrible, you have to have sharpened pencils for fingers to type on that flush keyboard)

Mort said:
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
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Click to collapse
ok now these reasons make a lot of sense. im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said. but ok, all of your other reasons make complete sense. im sure the future releases of android will only get better.
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).

jakub_w said:
im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said.
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Who knows? AFAIK, the order numbers aren't that bad, and all those reviewers give some feedback, too. I mean, it's only a week since the G1 is available at all, and, as said, it's not very attractive so far. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars just to provide Google with requests and code changes and T-Mobile and HTC with money...
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
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I don't think the UI is the really big thing about Android. You can even replace it completely, and I don't know (yet) where the limits / design guides are for applications. I just hope it doesn't get as confusing as Linux on the desktop, where even a Gnome or KDE desktop can be modified so far that it's almost as hard to switch distros as switching from Windows to MacOS...
The important things about Android are more in the basic technology, imho, like
- A stable, timeless system core (*nix is older than me, so "modern" is not quite correct - that goes for MacOS X, too, btw...)
- Seamless integration of connection management and phone functions (opposed to WM, where it still acts like a makeshift patchwork, and with every update less APIs are working...)
- Portable application framework (Java, lots of system APIs)
- Simple application installation (no "is this EXE a PC setup or the PPC executable?", "How the hell do I install a CAB file?", ...)
However, I still wonder how/if Andoid will support direct PC synchronization (for shared files, contacts, appointments, music, ...) and how fast and memory consumptive the required Java VM is... (Well, at least none of the G1 reviews I read complained about that, so it seems to be faster than .NET on WM...)

i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.

jakub_w said:
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
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I definitely agree with you on that. Thing is though is that this is a completely different environment with a different set of drivers (and rules) which makes (for example) modifying their parameters to allow for keys normally used for certain functions in WM to be used for something completely different. Also OpenGL (ES) is all that is used on *nix OSes whether or not they run on full or embedded hardware. All that's needed is the driver for the graphics chip. Microsoft wants you to use their proprietary D3D not OpenGL (ES) hence why it was impossible to have OpenGL (ES) before. Also TF3D uses DirectX and not OpenGL ES AFAIK.
Android is great. Only thing I need is a way to get the SDcard image working and a HTC Touch Pro to port Android, Angstrom and/or OpenMoko to, I'd be set.

why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?

joel2009 said:
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
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Weeell....
- It's Linux and Open Source (some people wouldn't touch a closed system with a stick...)
- It's nice to be prepared when you get the running system
- There is a device with that OS
- The documentation is way better than Microsoft's
- There's a good chance the API will remain compatible, so it doesn't hurt to start early (opposed to WM, where some basic features can/could only be done with device dependant or inofficial APIs, which were dropped in newer updates...)

Windows Phone 7 with full "multitouch" on our HD2´s

Hey xda´s!
Today I´m getting my own HD2 from england and I can´t wait to hold it in my hands
But I have some questions about the phone.
The first one is...Will the HD2 be upgradeable to Wiindows Phone 7 or if it will not be official upgradeable will the xda´s can do it? I know its early to ask about WM7 because there are not really many specs out about it yet but I would like to know what you think about that
And my second question is...Will the HD2 with it´s capacitive screen have full "multitouch" aahh sorry "pinch to zoom" support on WM7?
...or will the xda´s enable more multitouch gestures in the next weeks or months?

There have been tons of queries about this subject, please use the search before posting. It's probably safe to say that HTC won't be giving us WinMo7 the official way, but I'm sure the XDA community will find a way getting it to our beloved HD2 "the other way"

it will be possible congrats for ur new mob you'll love it

Yep! Thats right! If not Officially, you can bet that Win Mo 7 will be made available on the HD2 by the talented devs here. And not just that, we might even get Android to run on it!
Congrats on your purchase!

Tanmay® said:
..., we might even get Android to run on it!
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Thats a point i never got...
Why do people want to port Android on Wimo Phones? I you like Andorid, why don't you directly buy an Android phone which was designed for the operating system. I guess thats better than having a bad ported version running on a phone desigend for windows mobile.

actually this subject is non sense.

LordK said:
Thats a point i never got...
Why do people want to port Android on Wimo Phones? I you like Andorid, why don't you directly buy an Android phone which was designed for the operating system.
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People do it because, in the case of the HTC Leo/HD2, there's not one piece of hardware quite like it being sold with Android installed.
I guess smartphones are quickly becoming the new PCs & Laptops of the age. Some people buy a PC with an OS installed as default, they like the hardware but not the OS (usually Windows, maybe OSx) so they just format the HDD and install say Ubuntu etc etc.

jagnet said:
People do it because, in the case of the HTC Leo/HD2, there's not one piece of hardware quite like it being sold with Android installed.
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Yeah but you will never get a well-performing port until an OEM makes a device with the same hardware. Who's going to make the drivers for you?

vangrieg said:
Yeah but you will never get a well-performing port until an OEM makes a device with the same hardware. Who's going to make the drivers for you?
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That's true. Though the Acer A1 and Xperia X3 both use snapdragon so drivers (or partial drivers) will undoubtedly make their way to the porting project.

Yes but then you will have Android devices with the same level of hardware as HD2! So the initial question remains - why not buy them instead of coping with inevitable problems with ports?
It's not like drivers instantly start working when you copy them from one device to another, even with the same hardware platform - check out the video drivers thread to see what I mean. You're doomed to have problems like battery drain or calls dropping or poor performance in some areas or what not.
Then there will be some problems with applications - I don't know about the new devices, but all the current Android ones have low-res screens.
In addition to that, you really want 2.0 with Sense, and there's no port of that available AFAIK. Plain Android is just dull, it's nothing to fret about, IMO.
I understand the fun of porting and making things work, but using that as your primary device? It's guaranteed to be worse than what you have now.

Neither of those devices have 4.3 inch touchscreens. Also The HD2 has a look and feel all of its own.
The only thing spoiling it for me is Windows Mobile and the terrible onscreen keyboard so if we could port Android to this device I would be elated as it has a much better marketplace (Windows Marketplace is really a sack over overpriced crap), less cludge and better built in apps - the Youtube app for example supports user subscriptions and favourites viewing, and I'm a big online video fan.
The fact that Android was built from the ground up for capacitive touchscreen devices rather than being a patched up ropey old operating system with a shell interface on top makes me drool at the idea of it being on the HD2, and YES we could buy an Android device of similar specification BUT where's the fun in that??? Check the name of this site.........................

Well, I'm not on the Google/Android hype bandwagon, I do admit that the UI out of the box there is much more finger friendly and the notifications are implemented in the best way among all the mobile phone OSes, but otherwise Android's greatness is blown out of all reasonable proportion. An Android crippled by driver incompatibilities/incomplete implementation is something that totally misses the concept of attractive in my terms...
That said, I'm sure I'll install it myself one day (via haret or otherwise) just out of curiosity, that would certainly serve to satisfying the geek in me. But to expect that your experience from using the device would improve is somewhat unrealistic.

I am happy with the HD2 and figured I would decide what platform to go with at the time of my next phone purchase. This report should mean I can try out Windows Mobile 7 on the HD2 and take that into consideration as well.
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/8793.html

CAH000 said:
I am happy with the HD2 and figured I would decide what platform to go with at the time of my next phone purchase. This report should mean I can try out Windows Mobile 7 on the HD2 and take that into consideration as well.
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/8793.html
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nice, i can't wait

MSmobiles is full of **** as usual. They post BS to get hits every once in a while.

So long Leo

If you are the kind of person who gets emotionally attached to the gadgets you buy, please stop reading this post.
I'm not trying to start an inflamed discussion about which is the best device or manufacturer.
I’m not an Apple fan, in fact, I hate being “Apple locked” and that’s one of the main reasons I’ve bought the Leo after owning an Eten x500, a Kaiser, a Blackstone and finally, an iPhone 3GS.
I could go over and over describing the differences and the pros and cons of each device but I won’t. I’ll just try to tell you guys a few things we don’t have to accept.
We don’t have to accept …
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
a Gigahert processor which can’t smoothly scroll a web page. I know it’s probably due to bad Opera coding but… have you ever scrolled an iPhone Safari?
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
I could go on but there is something I realized that made me feel really hopeless (yes, I would really like to like a Windows phone). While HTC (and other manufacturers) keeps on launching device after device in a short time frame and thus creating new bugs and issues to deal with, Apple keeps on improving its one and only iPhone OS, for its one iPhone device (ok, different versions but very similar) which keeps getting better and better.
While iPhone developers have to deal with interface and compatibility issues for 3 very similar devices, a Windows Mobile developer has to deal with hundreds of them, some very poorly designed and a few very good (like Leo) but in the end, there is no way to develop a very good app for so many devices without a huge effort (and cost). Also, developing an App exclusively for one Windows phone wouldn’t be cost effective as a single model doesn’t represent a large enough consumer market.
Apple, with the iPhone, didn’t create a device as we are used to. Instead, they created a product with a long roadmap, mature SDK, sufficient market share, providing the necessary ecosystem for developers all around the world to make it even better.
It won’t be possible for any manufacturer, using any OS, to compete with such a mature product if they don’t realize it’s not a device we need. It’s a product.
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)

fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
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Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.

Xeon said:
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...

fmcastro said:
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some bugs are bearable.. I had too many with all my previous XDA/HTC phones. But for such basic bugs to be found, the device primary tasks ( phone calls / SMS ) should never be affected because it makes the device useless...

fmcastro said:
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
fmcastro said:
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
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That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
fmcastro said:
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
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Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?

aussiebum said:
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
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Humm... not exactly. Most people here at XDA were trying to switch from an oficial ROM to another. That said, we're talking about official languages. I was trying to flash a WWE ROM on a french device for example. The HTC excuse for this terrible language mess is, of course, microsoft: "Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions put in place by Microsoft, it is not legally possible for us the change the language of a device once it has been loaded" - Quoted from an HTC support email I received.
aussiebum said:
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
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Do you realise it shouldn't matter whose fault it is? It's a faulty device sold by HTC, period. I don't feel any better knowing it's an OS fault.
aussiebum said:
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
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I know but I think it's a bit more complicated as I said on the original post. Besides the laziness, WM developers face a too heterogeneous ecossystem that makes things really harder. "Ok, I've finished my app, now I just have to port it to 640x480, 480x640, 480x800, 800x480, 320x200, and who knows what else, despite the fact that standard WM UIs are really crap so every developer has to start from scratch if they want to make something look good. In short, only a few very brave souls will be capable of that.
aussiebum said:
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
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Click to collapse
Because Android is not that good also. It seems like a better OS than WM but when it comes to user experience and, most important, a consistent user experience across all apps, it fails for the same reason WM fails. Lack of a product design and roadmap. It's just trying desperately to be installed on as most devices as it can.
Regards

And yet, the reasons people still use Winmo/Android is because the Iphone OS has serious deficiencies in some areas.
There is no perfect phone....all we can do is make the best of each OS.

Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.

Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.

I owned iphone 3gs...
I read all you've been writing and i, as former iphone 3gs user, must say that everything you say is corect but... why don't you say to all of us why you gave up your iphone... or why you really hating go back to itunes... and of course why in the close future you'll give up again, and sell the iphone???
The answer, real answer is that with iPhone you have everything right in place as you say but there is no fun... no joy... like trying to have the best sex but not in the mood... if know what i mean...
I had moments when i pulled out my iphone, from my pocket, and i wanted to play arround with it and...come on, really boring!!!
Iphone is the best in terms of everyday use, but if wm 7 will get better in terms of use it's going to be a strong iphone killer!!!
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
By the way...
No OS can have better handle of e-mail attachments than wm... for sure!!!
I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR SELLING IPHONE OVER HTC HD2!!!
Cheers!

jimbo29 said:
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for perfectly expressing my thoughts

Toss3 said:
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say i have had an iphone 3g and i'm more happy with my HTC HD2. One of the reasons is because i simply think you pay way to much for the piece of hardware itself still no 5mpx camera while 8 is almost normal and 12 is high end. The new gs is worth more the money tough but the camera keeps me off and i kept hearing a annoying resonance while calling and the software isn't perfect as well and not that stable after a few days plus the battery life of the HTC HD2 is better as my iphone 3g and way better as the 3gs.
I like the default windows mobile software HTC Sense is annoying, camera flip, weather animations can't be turned off. Emails why show the email in the way it is shown now? i just rather had opened the whole email app so i can view the emails like your supposed to and not like a letter.
While calling you have to slide to get the extra options, why? there is a hang up button on screen wich you can press so why not the other buttons?
HTC tried to make a nice looking skin but not a functional one.
I use the default titanium skin with some modifications like a task manager added to the options and msn and the camera. But the apps for calling and the communications manager work great.
About windows mobile 7:
Windows mobile can be great. But i still have the idea they haven't learned from their mistakes. Look at the buttons a phone is supposed to have according to microsoft for windows mobile 7. a Pickup, a home, a start, a back and a hang up button. Why so many? Home and start could be one, 1 press to go home another to go to start and press again to go home again, simple and effective. Why a back button? when would you use that? Press the home button and your back in the home screen and applications usually have their own back button when needed. So pick-up home and hang-up would have been enough. Since Microsoft asks for these buttons they still think to complicated and i bet windows 7 will to complicated as well all though it will be more complete compared to 6.x.
But i love how i can change things to the user interface and multitasking is great, the iphone can't do that by default and that really sucks. And backgrounder that does make it possible, makes the phone more unstable as a windows mobile one. It is stupid windows mobile doesn't use it's greatest advantage for marketing and battling the iphone with it, this is where windows mobile could stand out with.
I'm writing this from my macbook on os x snow leopard and even i still prefer my windows mobile HTC HD2.

Windows Mobile 7 will simply use CE7 Kernel, compiled for new ARM CPUs and will use the new ARM instructions.
Now we're running Windows Mobile 6.5 that runs on CE5.2 kernel.
It's like running Windows98 on a Phenom X4 quadcore CPU
Even on other MSM chipsets that has got an ARM11 CPU, that potential isn't seen because of that.
When WM7 will be released, we'll see our device performance unleashed

I've had my HD2 for a week now and I must say I'm more than pleased with it. I did consider the iPhone as an option, but as I want to connect my phone to my Exchange Server then it was a no brainer to opt for a Windows Phone and the hardware specs of the HD2 are way above the iPhone. A big thing that put me off the iPhone was it's reliance upon iTunes to synchronise my calendar & contacts - it's dreadfully buggy toy software and I don't want a music application on my work PC.
If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as "the users' fault".
The emergence of open source Android phones whill hopefully spur the mainstream smartphone OS writers to concentrate their efforts on developing their own platforms. It's true to say that Microsoft haven't trerated their Windows OS as a mainstream product and there's still too much legacy code in 6.5, but it's still a decent OS for its intended purpose Hopefully that will be addressed in Version 7 which looks likely to be available to HD2 users as an (free?) upgrade. There's masses of quality third-party apps avaiable to maximise its smartphone potential for just about all users,.
There isn't a perfect smartphone out there and as we demand ever more features of them I doubt if there is likely to be in the forseable future, but the nice thing about the Windows Phone OS is that it is eminently hackable.

HD2 Simply Put...
Depth & Customization!

iphone got it right???
I remember hearing complaints about iphone for at least the first year, and as omneity says:
"If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as 'the users' fault' ".
fmcastro said:
We don’t have to accept …
5. a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
p.s. I am a former Apple user. Iphone is more of Jobs' controlled user experience.
I couldn't stand it.
I find it ironic that Apple started out supporting open source while Gates worked hard at controlling users choice.
Now it is the reverse.

New things r always trapped in some trouble, and that's why i have paid close attention to leo, but i didn't buy it! im just waiting for a staid one.

To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.

Teneka_Khan said:
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I FULLY agree with you ; I also have a iphone 3G 16 GB but is now in the drawer collecting dust. As saying goes, One man's meat is another man poison . No point debating about how good/bad the HD2 and iPhone and any other PDA. It will never end
As far as I am concerned , the HD2 is my choice now vs iPhone

gavinfabl said:
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I totally agree...and that's just what i've now done

WinMo 7 predicitions

What do you think WinMo 7 is going to be like? Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
I think it would be fantastic if they released a Beta version for the public to test like with Windows 7, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which makes me nervous.
Hopefully the Zune team has a say in the design, cause they seem to have their **** together.

I'm guessing it's going to be a combination between WM 6.5, Android, Iphone OS and Zune. Honestly I'm hoping for something revolutionary.

MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.

I think a beta test would be positive for them anyways, especially to beat down all the rumors and to give people a reason to wait/want those WinMo devices, guaranteeing the availability of WinMo phones by the time it releases to the world in final form.
If they don't act swift in these times there would be no manufacturer left to distribute to and it would pretty much be at the brink of death (= even more pressure)..
However, once they bring out a public beta, IPhone OS and Android might actually get inspired by it and anticipate before it is even released, making it less spectacular.
Yep, there are two sides on this.. I hope it'll be as revolutionary as they are implying.

laserviking said:
Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No and definitely no.

I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:
1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.

OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.
If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.
EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect
(though not all is perfect)
Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid
You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.

Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here

mark0326 said:
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
WhyBe said:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
WhyBe said:
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
WhyBe said:
[/B]1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
WhyBe said:
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
WhyBe said:
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.[/I]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
WhyBe said:
services equivalent to iTunes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean lock-in?

If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
^^^^^zune marketplace says hello

I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.
I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.

Spike15 said:
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
You mean lock-in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.
If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking it's not an OS, it's a frimware
I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?

anaadoul said:
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?
I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!

laserviking said:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?
I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.
And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.
About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when
a) people complain about things that are pure speculation
b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing
@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey
(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)
Btw. those are worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4

@freyberry
In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.
So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?

Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7
I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.
At the best:
- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...
A GOOD APPSTORE.
If all goes wrong...:
- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.
-------------------------
In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:
- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.
- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.
- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.
That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.
And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.
Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!

@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.

freyberry said:
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.
So maybe waiting is the best tactic...

Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
ppcgeeks said:
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive” [<-- That I can confirm.]
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...

freyberry said:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't like that!
let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.
no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid
@freyberry
how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).

Microsoft: “No Windows Phone 7 upgrade for Windows Mobile 6.x devices”

Article released today, brought to my attention by a friend.
http://apcmag.com/microsoft-no-windows-phone-7-upgrade-for-windows-mobile-6x-devices.htm
What do you think?

morpheus1982 said:
Article released today, brought to my attention by a friend.
http://apcmag.com/microsoft-no-windows-phone-7-upgrade-for-windows-mobile-6x-devices.htm
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tip for HTC disable 2 buttons with a upgrade ... lol

Just another example of M$ shafting existing customers, to make them buy a new phone. And I find that quote saying that the HD2 doesn't have certain hardware components to meet the spec, sounds like a crock to me.
Hopefully someone with skill can graft a WinMo 7 on to the HD2, while M$ is too lazy to do it.

That I frankly don't care, I got my HD2 for what it is and not what it possibly could be.
And that for those who are dying for it there's certainly a >50% chance that even if it doesnt come officially, someone on here will hack it. We have 2004 devices originally on PocketPC2003 running WM6.5 today, and having unofficially made all the steps inbetween... that's definitely very far from what they were originally intended for.

wtff?? just because the htc hd2 doesn't have the three buttons is not getting the wm7s upgrade? Microsoft just scuppered future sales of the hd2 by doing this, i have my doubts now if ill buy it or not!

I don't see how the buttons would be the issue...
Call can stays the same
Hang-up stays the same
Back stays the same
Home makes it go back to the windows panels
Windows could be the dedicated search button
I think HTC can upgrade if they wanted to, it just comes down to some executive saying yes/no for money reasons

kilrah said:
That I frankly don't care, I got my HD2 for what it is and not what it possibly could be.
And that for those who are dying for it there's certainly a >50% chance that even if it doesnt come officially, someone on here will hack it. We have 2004 devices originally on PocketPC2003 running WM6.5 today, and having unofficially made all the steps inbetween... that's definitely very far from what they were originally intended for.
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Yeah, that would even be better. A WinPhone with 5 buttons, what do you think about that!!
No, just kidding. I think you're right. The HD2 is really well designed. If HTC would just maintain the OS and update the Sense interface on the go, that would be really fine by me.
WinPhone is something for the future, far far ahead. (First wait for the first Winnie-the-Pho 7 generation, then get one when WinPhone 8 comes kicking in)

I'm not too surprised and not really disappointed. WP7 is looking way too closed for me. I would have given it a try, if the HD2 was upgradeable, but instead I will switch right to an android device (or hopefully there will be an [inofficial] upgrade for the HD2). Looking at the latest handsets with the latest 2.1 version, I really don't see why I should stick with Microsoft, which are screwing their current customers, who kept WM alive.

I wouldn't give too much about this article. Until now WP7 is by far not released and M$ often told a lot of tings that never came true. The funny thing about that company is the fact, that nobody knows ho is really able to give an official statement. I think you will be able to find more then 10 "official" statements by some M$-people about WP7 within the next months...
And about the THREE buttons - what should that mean? Does WP7 not allow QWERTY-phones? If that was true they would just lose lots of business-users that simply want to have HW-keyboard....

Im not fussed about whether HD2 gets an upgrade or not.
WHat i am fussed about (if this is true) is the fact that MS will insist upon each of their WP7 series devices having ONLY 3 buttons and no more.
That would truly suck. Having their 3 buttons makes sense but the restriction for putting any more hardware keys onto a device does not.
I guess i will now seriously be thinking about android for my next device.

Who the hell said that any WP7S device is not allowed to have more than 3 buttons? Right, nobody..

How can they say that this phone dont have what they want?
It has everything except the frontfacing cam that they will use for commands like waving your hand over your phone. (that wont work in darkness)
Anyway not that i would want WP7 since it looks like crap.
And wm6.x will become classic for budget users? wtf? wp7 looks more budget to me :\

Audio Oblivion said:
Im not fussed about whether HD2 gets an upgrade or not.
WHat i am fussed about (if this is true) is the fact that MS will insist upon each of their WP7 series devices having ONLY 3 buttons and no more.
That would truly suck. Having their 3 buttons makes sense but the restriction for putting any more hardware keys onto a device does not.
I guess i will now seriously be thinking about android for my next device.
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As senseless as it may sound in this discussion, I actually think that it makes sense that Microsoft is constraining phone-makers. I think they should strive for a uniform product. That would be a very good answer to apple and in the end will serve the user better. Now, the user have to choose between a myriad of devices that only on the surface differ from each other. Maybe, when there's just one hardware standard we can look for:
a) a better integration of software and hardware (like the iPhone)
b) a better way to compare several devices
c) a broader platform of third party accessoiries producers
But it would be great if in the meantime there will be still a WM 6.5(.x) platform that is highly customizable by phone-makers. Then we can look forward to two types of Windows Mobile devices: 1. a standard WinPhone and 2. a customized Windows Mobile based phone that each have their own interfaces.

appelflap said:
As senseless as it may sound in this discussion, I actually think that it makes sense that Microsoft is constraining phone-makers. I think they should strive for a uniform product. That would be a very good answer to apple and in the end will serve the user better. Now, the user have to choose between a myriad of devices that only on the surface differ from each other. Maybe, when there's just one hardware standard we can look for:
a) a better integration of software and hardware (like the iPhone)
b) a better way to compare several devices
c) a broader platform of third party accessoiries producers
But it would be great if in the meantime there will be still a WM 6.5(.x) platform that is highly customizable by phone-makers. Then we can look forward to two types of Windows Mobile devices: 1. a standard WinPhone and 2. a customized Windows Mobile based phone that each have their own interfaces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM6.5.x will still exist alongside WP7... this is a given.
The problem is... for how long? In my opinion... i cant see it being all that long at all... developers will obviously want to port their apps to the newer platform asap. Once this happens... to an extent its game over for 6.5.x
I like your points about how a uniform product can be a good thing... and i agree with having a hardware standard. However... extending the hardware standard to include how many buttons you can put on a device makes no sense to me whatsoever. What if i want to make a device that has a dpad? or trackball? optical mouse? etc etc.... even a simply volume rocker? is this allowed?
Some one needs to clear this up.

derScheich said:
Who the hell said that any WP7S device is not allowed to have more than 3 buttons? Right, nobody..
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FTA: the phone will be ruled out for the simple reason that it has five buttons instead of the three mandated for all Windows Phone 7 devices.
General Manager for Microsoft’s Mobile Communications Business in the Asia-Pacific region, told APC that the HD2 “doesn’t qualify because it doesn’t have the three buttons”.

I'm sure XDA-Devs will do it ourselves like we seemingly have to do for everything, as the saying goes "if you want something done properly, do it yourself", we have with everything else in the past and I am sure we will with WindowsPhone7Series

derScheich said:
Who the hell said that any WP7S device is not allowed to have more than 3 buttons? Right, nobody..
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Click to collapse
you watched the wp7s introduction video? i don't think so .
btw. i don't get it. every time anybody asks microsoft about upgrade on the HD2 they just point to come to the mix. I don't think that at the mix they'll just say "no we won't upgrade". Doesn't make any sense; why don't they just say "no" right now? and i don't think that they would say "no" to upgrade right before the US HD2 launch.

shu8i said:
you watched the wp7s introduction video? i don't think so .
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The whole show, my friend can you give me the exact quote, which says that no more than 3 buttons are allowed? And what about this?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/27/exclusive-lgs-windows-phone-7-series-early-prototype-unveiled/
Is it just me, or are there more than just 3 buttons?

derScheich said:
The whole show, my friend can you give me the exact quote, which says that no more than 3 buttons are allowed? And what about this?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/27/exclusive-lgs-windows-phone-7-series-early-prototype-unveiled/
Is it just me, or are there more than just 3 buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't have the link now, since i watched it live. if you send me a link of the video i will show you that Joe Belfiore explicitly said that wp7s devices will have 3 buttons . and the link you posted above will be the first wp7s device from LG with 3!!! buttons on the bottom. if you see more than 3, i'll need glases

Seems all to strange to me...... it's like saying that "you can't upgrade your PC to windows 7 because you have to many buttons on the case or too many usb ports"
Anyway, things may well change between now and release.... (here's hoping)
Well we could go down the iphone users route and demand a free upgrade to a new handset because there is a new Os out........ lol