Related
Can anyone get their hands on the TouchFLO UI CAB so we can give it a try on the Athena? The functionality was released on the HTC Touch in the UK. Maybe someone can get the CAB off of the HTC Touch and we can give it a try on our Athenas.
http://www.htctouch.com
Check out the TouchFLO try me link at the bottom of the page.
ltxda said:
Can anyone get their hands on the TouchFLO UI CAB so we can give it a try on the Athena? The functionality was released on the HTC Touch in the UK. Maybe someone can get the CAB off of the HTC Touch and we can give it a try on our Athenas.
http://www.htctouch.com
Check out the TouchFLO try me link at the bottom of the page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that is nice. Especially if it worked in landscape on the Athena.
Indeed. Very interesting.
I'll be looking for it too.
HTC's Touch is QVGA....
From what I've read of the specs, the HTC Touch is a QVGA device without 3G!
If the Cube Touch software is anything like the QVGA HTC Audio Manager I've seen, it will look pathetic on the Athena.
IMHO, it needs to be in a VGA device before it's worth considering installing it to the Athena and preferably a device with similar if not same hardware and software features, in order for all things to be accessible through it's interface.
Having said all that, I read somewhere recently that the Advantage comes with HTC Audio Manager (supposedly no better or worse than WMplayer), but at least natively VGA.
The Touch GUI looks great, but I know one thing for sure, if it lives up to the hype and actually allows better and more intuitive navigation through finger-touch, you can bet your bottom dollar that some big software developers like Spb will be on the bandwagon to produce an even better variant of it.
Great for the rest of the PPC community, whether VGA or QVGA.
May be it has something to do with screen build quality as well....I have a feeling that even though if we install all the interface cabs for "multi touch input method", still Athena screen will not be able to support it.
Does it has anything to do with screen build quality?
few reviews on HTC touch:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/06/05/htc-touch-hands-on/
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_touch_with_touchflo_technology-news-274.php
mackaby007 said:
From what I've read of the specs, the HTC Touch is a QVGA device without 3G!
If the Cube Touch software is anything like the QVGA HTC Audio Manager I've seen, it will look pathetic on the Athena.
IMHO, it needs to be in a VGA device before it's worth considering installing it to the Athena and preferably a device with similar if not same hardware and software features, in order for all things to be accessible through it's interface.
Having said all that, I read somewhere recently that the Advantage comes with HTC Audio Manager (supposedly no better or worse than WMplayer), but at least natively VGA.
The Touch GUI looks great, but I know one thing for sure, if it lives up to the hype and actually allows better and more intuitive navigation through finger-touch, you can bet your bottom dollar that some big software developers like Spb will be on the bandwagon to produce an even better variant of it.
Great for the rest of the PPC community, whether VGA or QVGA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want to give it a try. I see your points but am curious about it working and potentially enhancing the UI. From the demo it looked like a nice new toy to have. I'm thinking it's similar to what they did with the iPhone theme where you had the slider lock, etc. If you can at least swap screens and make custom menus using TouchFLO, that would be great. As for the phone it was released on...shame on HTC for putting something like this on such an inferior device ;-)
Nara-e-Mastana said:
May be it has something to do with screen build quality as well....I have a feeling that even though if we install all the interface cabs for "multi touch input method", still Athena screen will not be able to support it.
Does it has anything to do with screen build quality?
few reviews on HTC touch:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/06/05/htc-touch-hands-on/
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_touch_with_touchflo_technology-news-274.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think so but I could be wrong. For example, the iPhone theme uses slider bars, etc and can be loaded onto the Athena, with a little help of third party software. I hope someone posts the CAB so I can test it out. I'll load it and report my findings if someone can get it.
Nara-e-Mastana said:
May be it has something to do with screen build quality as well....I have a feeling that even though if we install all the interface cabs for "multi touch input method", still Athena screen will not be able to support it.
Does it has anything to do with screen build quality?
few reviews on HTC touch:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/06/05/htc-touch-hands-on/
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_touch_with_touchflo_technology-news-274.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't multi touch.
Or have I missed something?
ltxda said:
I want to give it a try. I see your points but am curious about it working and potentially enhancing the UI. From the demo it looked like a nice new toy to have. I'm thinking it's similar to what they did with the iPhone theme where you had the slider lock, etc. If you can at least swap screens and make custom menus using TouchFLO, that would be great. As for the phone it was released on...shame on HTC for putting something like this on such an inferior device ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta agree with you ltxda. I still want to try it too.
i think it would be great. i know there are other softwares that use this interface. so i think ppc is capable but its all about the software limitation.
If were lucky, alan from the HTC Touch post can investigate this for us as he has just acquired such a device.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1301886&posted=1#post1301886
mackaby007 said:
If were lucky, alan from the HTC Touch post can investigate this for us as he has just acquired such a device.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1301886&posted=1#post1301886
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's awesome! Great thinking mackaby007! Can't wait for him to reply and maybe send us a CAB or two.
Bad news so far...
This is what Paul of Modaco has reported so far;
"Random Touch trivia after spending some time today 'digging around'...
- The screen has it’s own new driver version (touch.dll). This means the TouchFLO interface won’t port to other devices. In fact, I tried it - just to be sure - by installing the driver on my Trinity, and the touchscreen stopped working ohmy.gif
- The fancy today screen plugin is just that, and would be easy for HTC to drop onto any device.
- Out of the box I feel the sensitivity of the screen is a little lacking (it occasionally misses clicks or taps from my finger or stylus), however this seems to be configurable in the registry – watch this space
- The Touch has a new version of HTC’s ‘Task Manager’ (close button) application, a new Camera application, and a very nifty network wizard for setting up GPRS settings. These settings are held on the device in a passworded ZIP file!
- NO PHONE PAD T9 ON THE TOUCH! What the hell were they thinking? I had a good moan to our HTC about it, and demo’d what Phone Pad would be like on the Touch... wink.gif
- When you boot the device, it does the email config (you know, the one that connects to the server to get settings?) and then the config of the data connection. Duh! Wrong order!
- All the IR drivers etc. are in ROM despite their being no IR port!
- The fancy UI takes up a lot of memory
- Audio Manager, Comm Manager and the Phone Dialler are all grey-skinned to match the homescreen UI. It looks real nice biggrin.gif
smile.gif
P"
Not looking good at the mo, but let's not give up hope.
mackaby007 said:
This is what Paul of Modaco has reported so far;
"Random Touch trivia after spending some time today 'digging around'...
- The screen has it’s own new driver version (touch.dll). This means the TouchFLO interface won’t port to other devices. In fact, I tried it - just to be sure - by installing the driver on my Trinity, and the touchscreen stopped working ohmy.gif
- The fancy today screen plugin is just that, and would be easy for HTC to drop onto any device.
- Out of the box I feel the sensitivity of the screen is a little lacking (it occasionally misses clicks or taps from my finger or stylus), however this seems to be configurable in the registry – watch this space
- The Touch has a new version of HTC’s ‘Task Manager’ (close button) application, a new Camera application, and a very nifty network wizard for setting up GPRS settings. These settings are held on the device in a passworded ZIP file!
- NO PHONE PAD T9 ON THE TOUCH! What the hell were they thinking? I had a good moan to our HTC about it, and demo’d what Phone Pad would be like on the Touch... wink.gif
- When you boot the device, it does the email config (you know, the one that connects to the server to get settings?) and then the config of the data connection. Duh! Wrong order!
- All the IR drivers etc. are in ROM despite their being no IR port!
- The fancy UI takes up a lot of memory
- Audio Manager, Comm Manager and the Phone Dialler are all grey-skinned to match the homescreen UI. It looks real nice biggrin.gif
smile.gif
P"
Not looking good at the mo, but let's not give up hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If he wants, have him give us the passworded ZIP file. I'll try to crack it.
I guess we'll have to have someone take a look at the dll mentioned above and see what can be done about that...if there is enough interest.
Maybe we could at least have the today plugin? That looks pretty sweet.
Touch.DLL
I Have a T-Mobile Wing, and I have the Touch.dll file in \Windows . . . (Touch.dll 26.9k 3/21/07 21:21.04)
It came that way, does that mean that TouchFlo may work on my device?
2 things i do not like:
mackaby007 said:
- Out of the box I feel the sensitivity of the screen is a little lacking (it occasionally misses clicks or taps from my finger or stylus), however this seems to be configurable in the registry – watch this space
- The fancy UI takes up a lot of memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pretty dissapointing but to be expected i guess.
Just grab yourself Wisbar, and the graphics file and youll be 2/3rds the way home and hosed to recreating the Interface.
Osir1s said:
Just grab yourself Wisbar, and the graphics file and youll be 2/3rds the way home and hosed to recreating the Interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well see, we're not trying to recreate the interface, we're trying to get the actual app from the actual source and see if it works. Please try to contribute to the thread instead of making ambiguous statements!
WarezAppz said:
I Have a T-Mobile Wing, and I have the Touch.dll file in \Windows . . . (Touch.dll 26.9k 3/21/07 21:21.04)
It came that way, does that mean that TouchFlo may work on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just maybe, you never know. I can't remember which post I read, but I do recall it mentioning that the the screen is a new techology and another report that that would not make it a standard WM6 device (I remember now, a discussion at 4winmobile.com about the HTC Touch etc..). Anyway, that makes sense + fellow member neilm also went on to mention that a lot of current WM5 & WM6 wouldn't work on it as it wasn't written with this type of multi-touch screen in mind.
Fair point I think and follows the logik that HTC haven't built a WM6 device that is incompatible with software written for its O/S. No it's more likely that that .dll is all the software needed to make that plug-in (shell or whatever) interface with any WM touch screen.
So, WarezApps, if you have the .dll by default, it could mean that your device is capable of running the plug-in with the screen driver you seem to have, as they may have considered selling it as a default app within your device, but possibly recognized the potential to knock out another new device (for more money), which will appeal to some people just for this particular touch interface!
I think it will work with that Touch.dll screen driver.
Can you upload your file for us all to share and examine.
Anyway bottom line: I think it's all about transferable software now and just want to try it for myself to see.
After using the device for last two weeks now i want to think does it really made us happy,if it's then how much? Haven't you guys think for a single moment that it is not worthy. Is there any real competitor or better out there?
i was actually skeptical in the beginning, but the more i use it the happier i get with it.
aaahhhhh................ I love this phone. i bought it this afternoon. i think te best thing about this phone is the 3,5inch jackplug (my last phone was a hermes with an mini usb audio plug GGGRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr!!! for 4 times i had to buy a new converter cable because of the crapy quality.)
For a phone with a qwerty keyboard it a pretty slim phone, not?
simply love this one!
i like it.
and i dont..
there are a lot of things that i would have like to see a bit different.
the software things i can change with time
not the hardware, so gues i have to get used to that.
boinger66 said:
i was actually skeptical in the beginning, but the more i use it the happier i get with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True
Very very happy...
anheuer said:
i like it.
and i dont..
there are a lot of things that i would have like to see a bit different.
the software things i can change with time
not the hardware, so gues i have to get used to that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also own a Diamond and a X1 - I thought the SE would be an great evolution from the Diamond.
The Diamond was the revolution - a great phone. The SE is not really great in any way, however it's - quite good in everything.
I originally upgraded to the C905 but decided to changed it for the X1. So glad that I did as I'm loving it. Had it for 2 weeks now and I'm still finding out new things about it. It's my first WinMob phone so there's so much more you can do with it. Can't wait for more apps to be released and a system upgrade would be nice.
I'm even happier now i've given up on trying to use the TouchFlo CAB's.
I think if you embrace the phone interface as it was intended you'll get much more enjoyment from it.
x1 + tflo3d rulez... quick phone, quick gps, good wifi, hw keyboard needs only some time to get comfortable... I'm very happy
It's great, just... great
I had an Iphone 3G before so even if the screen is more little, the WVGA is great.
The battery is good, the keyboard is nice and at last I can use Real VNC or Remote Desktop to access my servers without a laptop and with a decent resolution.
And of course, it's fast.
There are still some problems (wifi password lost, BT disconnecting) but I guess it can be solved by an updated firmware.
But in the end, I just like it
The Xperia is my 4th. HTC device and the 2nd that I am happy with. The first was a Palm Treo 750W.
The other 2 HTC branded devices I have owned (touch Dual & Touch Diamond) were junk with poor support for any technical issues from HTC.
It appears to me that the major handest manufacturers like Palm & Sony who OEM thru HTC, actually specify, test and produce a much more professional product.
I certainly will never buy another HTC branded product again
The only gripe I have with it is the crappy signal, but that should be amended with a radio upgrade.
From a total package perspective, the X1 is a very good smartphone.
Sure there are some areas that needs more work, but they are not fatal and do not detract from the overall high quality of the device. It is well designed and well built, and the specifications are about one of the best in the market right now.
I am very happy with my X1, and is one of the better buys that I've made over the past year or so.
I'm not too happy with the panels. They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen. My appointments are all default made up ones and it takes like 5 seconds just to change from the fake panel to the real one. Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded. For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page. There is not even a setting to make it always show the today page. Dumb. Also, there is no Start menu on the panels screen so I always have to select a panel just to select the start menu. STUPID.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason. Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time? Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly. Sure, faster then my old qtek 9100, but still not instant and has plenty of delays for some strange reason.
kiwiandy said:
The Xperia is my 4th. HTC device and the 2nd that I am happy with. The first was a Palm Treo 750W.
The other 2 HTC branded devices I have owned (touch Dual & Touch Diamond) were junk with poor support for any technical issues from HTC.
It appears to me that the major handest manufacturers like Palm & Sony who OEM thru HTC, actually specify, test and produce a much more professional product.
I certainly will never buy another HTC branded product again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This I agree with you regarding the poor support of HTC even in Singapore. Before using the X1, I have tried out Diamond which is my first WM device and after Touch Pro launch, I switch to Touch Pro due to the lack of memory and laggy of the Diamond.
Touch Pro is a little better than Diamond as both are also using Touch Flo 3D and Touch Pro has little memory more than Diamond.
I have no regrets switching to X1 as it is a lot faster and responsive than HTC device as SE has a better after sales support in terms of service centre and phone support compared to HTC.
I don't think I will ever buy any HTC product in future too cos after sales support is important to me as there are no product which is perfect and problem free in this world.
contaygious said:
I'm not too happy with the panels. They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen. My appointments are all default made up ones and it takes like 5 seconds just to change from the fake panel to the real one. Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded. For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page. There is not even a setting to make it always show the today page. Dumb. Also, there is no Start menu on the panels screen so I always have to select a panel just to select the start menu. STUPID.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason. Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time? Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly. Sure, faster then my old qtek 9100, but still not instant and has plenty of delays for some strange reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude you have failed to internalise the purpose of panels. It's a desktop profile based on the time of the day. You don't switch panels like you switch windows!
before you call the concept stupid, understand it first. Using it for wrong purpose is like buying a 2 door sports car for cargo delivery purpose and claim the car manufacturer stupid for designing the car that don't meet your needs!
I miss something between "very very happy" and "just about OK".
It's better that "just about OK", but it's not perfect.
I love the small overall size, the stylisch metal cover, the keyboard, the good standby time, the good performance, the big memory, the hi-res display, ...
But then again, the panels aren't that great, I miss some application buttons, the soft reset button location is plain stupid, the screen resolution causes troubles with some programs, the screen size is only just big enough, I miss an option to disable the optical DPad per application (it's great in many apps, but esp. in some games, it really sucks...), ... Mostly only minor things, but stopping me from being "very very happy"...
i m proud of using xperia
akechi84 said:
i m proud of using xperia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too, it is so sexy and light compared to my previous Touch Pro, just like bringing out a BRICK.
contaygious said:
They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "screenshots" in the panel selection screen are only rough examples. They're really only something like "improved icons" for selection, and do not represent the actual contents.
Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The device does remember the last panel, if that's what you mean. Just press the red phone button to go back to that.
Though I admit it would've been a way better idea to return to the last panel with the panel button and then open the panel selection with another press of the button. Or even better, show the next panel after a short press and show the selection with a long press.
For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's probably up to the panel itself. If SPB doesn't save the last panel contents, you can't blame the panel concept. For example, the SE panels do remember the selected blocks. But I think SPB wanted it that way, just like the Now screen in "normal" Mobile Shell always initializes with the same contents.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but not (only) because of the reasons you named.
I think panels are more or less an unnecessary reprogramming of the Today screen (esp. the SE panel "blocks" would have made great plugins...).
With good plugins and a way to have more plugins than just the currently visible ones (e.g. with UltimateLaunch, PocketPlus, some SBSH plugins, ...), you get similar results way faster, more easy to handle, and using less system resources. OK, no nice 3D animations, but except for showing off they've got no use there, anyway...
Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, it's more like shuffling around hi-res icons...
Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually, it takes not even a second on my device.
Hello
I have been a happy HTC Touch (regular not HD) user for 12 months, doing extensive customisation on my phone. Recently, mainly because my Touch was really slow (only 64Ko of memory, still slow even after replacing with a faster ROM), I bought an iPhone 3G.
After a few months of use, there are pros and cons of course. Now that the HD is out, I am wondering if I should switch back to the HTC Touch HD.
So here are my first conclusions, but of course since I don't have a Touch HD, I cannot answer many of the points.
Please use this thread to complete a really detailed comparison between the iPhone and the Touch HD, not what you can find on standard sites comparing basic features.
General response time: big disappointment as this was my main driver. The iPhone (I have 4 pages of apps installed, so what, I should not use the phone fully???) is really slow. Calendar or contact can sometimes takes up to 5 seconds to open: UNACCEPTABLE. Inside the apps sometimes it is slow as well. Hope the Touch HD is better than the Touch
Calendar: Iphone standard Calendar is much easier to use with a finger than default WM version. However I was using ThumbCal and it was fine with finger even on small HTC Touch screen. Not sure if HTC Touch HD enlarges standard WM calendar (everything is larger) or simply packs more info on a signle page? Also I don't like the fact in iPhone that tasks are not managed by Calendar, annoying!
Contacts: iPhone is much better than default WM or HTC Touch features (one again mainly because easier to use without a stylus). However replacement app such as PocketCm does a better job on WM than on the iPhone: Easier scroll through contact on main page by showing the first letter that will be displaid if releasing the finger. SMS are visible from the contact directly, no need to open SMS app like on the iPhone. Much better group and filter management also: ability to filter contacts by groups (ok also on iPhone, but management of groups creates constraints in Outlook), by city, by company... no equivalent on iPhone.
Phone: better on iPhone: the screen locks itself while speaking, to prevent pressing keys, this is good, don't think it's available on Touch HD? Bigger keys on dialer. Better display format of phone numbers on dialer (grouping of digits). Good pad showing up when on the phone to have the need options on iPhone (speaker phone, contacts, calendar...). And finally Visual Voice mail is useful!
Internet browsing: hard to compare, as I could not really use opera mini on the Touch. I must say Safari does the job quite well, allowing you to access most sites, without flash of course. Does Opera allow to see flash sites? Safari sometimes crashes, but still acceptable. Speed depends on quality of connection. One great thing is integration with iPhone programs: for instance you look on Google for a store. You find it with phone number displaid on Google search page. CLicking on the phone number allows you to call it directly. If you make the call, in call history it will diplay correctly the name of the store to be entered directly in contacts! Fantastic, probably not available in WM and Opera?
Mail: hard to compare as I was not using it on Touch. But the iPhone feature is excellent. I use Yahoo mail. Configuration was very simple, and mails are pre formatted to the iPhone scrren, making it easy to use. Does Touch HD reformat properly mails?
Other programs in general: I would say most progams are more mature on WM, but harder to use since designed to use with a stylus. Not sure once again if the Touch HD enlarges same surface on the screen or simply packs more info in one page, still requiring use of stylus.
Profile Management: my biggest problem with iPhone: Apple does not allow to create a progam that will switch automatically several profile parameters. What is this? A profile is a set of parameter such as screen brightness, ring tone/vibrate, blue tooth on/off, wifi off, 3G on/off, GPS on/off... With Phoneweaver I was able to create as many profiles as needed and change at the touch of a finger. In iPhone, a real nightmare. Let's say you want to activate 3G and GPS: it takes at least 15 clicks... just for these 2 options. UNACCEPTABLE.
SpringBoard: this is the ability to use icons on the today screen: much better on the iPhone by default, but once again with additional program in WM such as iLauncher I was able to get a better result by creating categories which is not really possible in iPhone (I tried Categories, way too slow! and Stacks is odd to use).
GPS: well without TOmTOm I don't see the use of the GPS in the iPhone...
This is a first shot, please give some input!
Olivier
How is this a comparison if you don't even have the Touch HD? It is just your opinions of the iPhone 3G.......on a Touch HD forum of all places.
You can not compare the htc touch with the iphone 3G
the iphone 3G is a newer model which was released 1 year after the htc touch
Also the HD has all the phone features you are saying are better on the iphone and unavailable on the HD. You can either autolock phone when you make a call or use the light sensor on the earpiece. And you get the pad type thing.
i suggest you actually use the HD before posting a comparison in here.
I dont think this guy has used a windows mobile device at all, let alone the Touch HD. he sounds like an apple fan who has just 'heard a bunch of stuff' about Windows Mobile.
Most of it is unfounded.. I mean, how are iPhone contacts better than the Touch HDs? Which is VERY finger friendly.
Calm down with the fanboi defensive stuff guys.
I've had both (sold the Iphone).
Touch HD pro: great form factor, fabulous screen, the resolution makes it so much more usable for bigger webpages. The tweakability of WM too.
Touch HD cons: lots of little irritating things - it's a shoddy unfinished product in a lot of ways. GPS popping offline, wifi problems, those damn freezes, the incompleteness of T3D, the need to tweak all sorts of things that should already have been done (eg opera tweak so you don't need to zoom before clicking). Youtube app doesn't work at all on mine. No BBC iplayer (not HTC's fault of course, but still an issue for consumers). Lots of other small things that should never have happened with a finished product, let alone one costing more than most laptops.
Now that looks like a lot of cons relative to the pros, but the thing is the hardware is just a baseline, a starting point. The excellence of the screen allows it to be whatever product you want - none of the failings are critical for me, and by tweaking/customizing I've fixed/bypassed most of them.
Basically, the Touch HD is a better product than the Iphone, but let down by software quality control.
arfster said:
Calm down with the fanboi defensive stuff guys.
I've had both (sold the Iphone).
Touch HD pro: great form factor, fabulous screen, the resolution makes it so much more usable for bigger webpages. The tweakability of WM too.
Touch HD cons: lots of little irritating things - it's a shoddy unfinished product in a lot of ways. GPS popping offline, wifi problems, those damn freezes, the incompleteness of T3D, the need to tweak all sorts of things that should already have been done (eg opera tweak so you don't need to zoom before clicking). Youtube app doesn't work at all on mine. No BBC iplayer (not HTC's fault of course, but still an issue for consumers). Lots of other small things that should never have happened with a finished product, let alone one costing more than most laptops.
Now that looks like a lot of cons relative to the pros, but the thing is the hardware is just a baseline, a starting point. The excellence of the screen allows it to be whatever product you want - none of the failings are critical for me, and by tweaking/customizing I've fixed/bypassed most of them.
Basically, the Touch HD is a better product than the Iphone, but let down by software quality control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, although the Opera thing is not a bug, it's a feature We are spoiled with the HD screen which allows you to actually read huge pages without zooming. On other devices, you hardly can, let alone click a link in any accurate fashion, so you will want to be able to zoom first without accidentally clicking some link in the process... Everyone has their opinion about this of course but this is the reason behind it.
nin2thevoid said:
Agree, although the Opera thing is not a bug, it's a feature We are spoiled with the HD screen which allows you to actually read huge pages without zooming. On other devices, you hardly can, let alone click a link in any accurate fashion, so you will want to be able to zoom first without accidentally clicking some link in the process...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrrm, don't see why. What's the benefit of zooming first? You can still do it if you want.
Looks to me like HTC just installed Opera and didn't bother testing/tweaking it.
arfster said:
Hrrm, don't see why. What's the benefit of zooming first? You can still do it if you want.
Looks to me like HTC just installed Opera and didn't bother testing/tweaking it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently the meaning of this is that one click in zoom out mode means hovering the mouse to that area. Some websites depends heavily on mouse and hover menus, and without this these sites would be unusable.
I have only 1 thing to say...I had Iphone and HTC X7500....Sold both of them and bought Touch HD...I am really happy with it
Why do people insist on compare a toy with professional devices with all features need and many more ? OMG and even comparing devices you don't have with toys, iPhoney is just a toy with many limitations, there's absolutely no way to compare it with the HD, for those who like to use the expression "iPhone killer" you can stop that, that device was already killed by past HTC devices and others. Stop creating Threads like this one.
Best regards
PJMDS said:
Why do people insist on compare a toy with professional devices with all features need and many more ? OMG and even comparing devices you don't have with toys, iPhoney is just a toy with many limitations, there's absolutely no way to compare it with the HD, for those who like to use the expression "iPhone killer" you can stop that, that device was already killed by past HTC devices and others. Stop creating Threads like this one.
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Sorry, but that's just silly. Of course you can compare them - as cameras, as music players, as web browsers, as video players etc etc. Same as any other multimedia phone. Personally my take is that the Iphone still has the best interface going, and benefits from a mass captive market that others don't have. It took until the touch hd before I actually bought a replacement - none of the other potential "iphone killers" were was good as even the original device (including previous HTC products).
What is with all the fanboi rubbish for and against the iphone? It's a device. If you like it you buy, if not you don't. People seem to take to "supporting" their favourite product like a football team.
There are just a few basic things in my opinion that make the HD far superior to the iPhone.
1. iPhone has no copy and paste...how stupid is that?
2. iphone has no working GPS software with built-in maps and voice navigation...huge omission.
3. iPhone doesn't multitask, you have to close an app to start another...OMG!
If these points don't convince someone that they should get the HD over the iPhone then that's fine, different strokes for different folks. The iPhone is iCandy...period.
concerning web browsing, iphone is much better than the touch hd.
Even though its screen is a bit smaller, the pages load much faster and the scrolling is way smoother.
The keypad is also much better on the iphone, at least for me. When pressing a key, you see above your finger whiwh key you pressed.
Not mentionning the audio part for which the hd doesn't come close to the iphone.
I guess you're wondering what i'm doing here and why i haven't sold my hd yet ? The hd is the best wm based device i've ever had. Being able to install whatever you want and to tweak at will is great.
Now, if a good gps software is someday released for iphone, i may reconsider and leave the touch hd unless it's been improved for web browsing notably in the meantime
...
well, on the other hand some pages in Safari doesn´t work correctly and I don´t understand what you mean the audio part - the quality of 3,5 jack output are comparable (according to independent tests - see gsmarena for example)...iphone´s jack output is just good, not outstanding quality.
catinthehat said:
i suggest you actually use the HD before posting a comparison in here.
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Second that....
totally useless post, if u actually not even own a HD
hannawald said:
well, on the other hand some pages in Safari doesn´t work correctly and I don´t understand what you mean the audio part - the quality of 3,5 jack output are comparable (according to independent tests - see gsmarena for example)...iphone´s jack output is just good, not outstanding quality.
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True. Forgot to mention it's the software side i was talking about : i find it easier to navigate all my music on the iphone. Htc tried to mimic this interface but it doesn't match the original
This is of course subjective, but at least it comes from a guy who has both devices in his pocket =)
well all i have to say on the subject is this....
David Balfour said:
well all i have to say on the subject is this....
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hehehe you missed the battery....
while the gigantic 4.3" helps in making everything finger (or even foot) friendly, its still a windows mobile device. and many of the apps require some precision are written to be used with a stylus. i cant imagine using "Pocket Artist" or copy and pasting text using my finger on a WM device.
You guys think that this will be a problem with this device.
it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen? I don't remember ever using the stylus on my HD...never needed it. I don't expect I'll need it on this device either
twisted-pixel said:
it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen?
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Because iPhone applications are written on the assumption that they are being used on an iPhone without a stylus. Plenty of Windows Mobile apps are written on the assumption that you are using a stylus; this includes a number of utilities built into the operating system.
I used the Leo ROM on my Xperia X1 and can say as long as you stay inside windows (or said different inside the shipped software) you won't get any problems, its very finger friendly and I never went down to an old wm 6 skin. concerns are only there if you want to use some 3rd party software. there might be a problem with finger usage like said above or somewhere else as they don't have to be finger optimized.
Personally - I think it will be fine. Also with later revisions of WM6.5 and then hopefully WM7 I think the phone will get easier IF there are any issues. The issues will only occur when you come out of the HTC Sense layer anyway, which won't be that often.
I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?
Lack of stylus will not be a issue at all with that huge screen...I think. We see when its in our hands. Hope it will be very soon
I'm using a TyTN II and almost never dig out the stylus. Over time I moved to apps that were finger friendly. And with the current design trends, I'm guessing even more apps will become available that don't require a stylus.
-Bob-
12aon said:
I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?
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afaik yes but on no pics can you find where it is placed i think and then they will probably release it with a largish price tag like the car dock...
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
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What makes you say this? There have been plenty off leo roms out that seem to leave that function intact
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
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I don't use my Touch Diamond's stylus, and the Touch Diamond has a much smaller screen so I think the huge screen of the HD2, coupled with the capacitive touch sensivity, should be fine.
And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...
And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...
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True, because the TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO were sold on devices with *resistive* screens, these devices can handle Windows Mobile screens without any trouble. The HD2 on the other hand has the capacitive screen, and HTC knows that operating the WM UI with such device is going to be a problem, such a problem that no one even believe capacitive will reach WM before version 7.0, yet HTC came with the MANILA 2.5 solution, so I can very much understand them when they say they don't want you to defeat MANILA 2.5.
O2 are offering me this phone as an upgrade. I need a decent keyboard and am loathed to part with my TP2!
Does anyone have any experience of using any of the screen "keyboards" for emails etc? If so, can it really replace the hardware keyboard?
May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD
kjt57 said:
May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD
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You need a special kind of stylus for capacitive screens.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-CAPACITIV...ries_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item2ea897a251
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
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Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!
Can't help but think everyone is being a little binary here
The UI is the launch pad for the device ... It will be possible to disable TouchFlo3D. HTC were probably saying this to detract people from the ever present concerns with exposure to the native OS UI.
All the other apps you use on the device have their own UI. Once launched, it is almost (back to that in a moment) irrelevant what the OS UI is. The concern will be if those desktop class apps we love on WM in spite of WM itself are not easy to use on the HD2.
I don't see many apps I have that will be a problem ... infact, the only ones would be Resco Explorer, utilities like SKtools, data entry tools like Softmaker Office and PhatNotes (although I'll probably be ok with the on screen keyboard given the capacitive touch and size of display ... and for laptop 'replacement' use, I'll use the BT Stowaway keyboard and mouse) and drawing tools .... which some I'm sure want .... I personally (and therefore subjective) have never used them ... so it isn't an issue for me.
It is true to say that PI and Flexmail could do with more focus on touch ... and given the iPhone apps Alex was working on (I'm a little out of date) ... I'm sure that will come soon.
Also .. I'm not sure if it waning enthusiasm or a change of focus ... but having used PI extensively for years ... when using Mobile Shell 3 and things like PocketBreeze, I realised I rarely went to PI any more .... With FlexMail ... it is a superb product ... but it always had problems with storage ... and after the WM client supported HTML ... it was less needed ... with TF3D ... again ... makes it even easier ... so PI will remain for micro text month view and tasks ... FM will remain for when I need to do complex searches of mail (a real weakness of the native clients on all phones), but I will rarely touch them in normal daily use.
So ... although I resisted the 'hype' around capacitive ... and thought a stylus would always be needed .... in practice ... I'd like to get an HTC capacitive stylus if it ever makes it off the drawing board ... but I doubt I'll really need one.
I used to always want the keyboard ... but after having 4 TyTNs and 3 TyTNIIs respectively before I got one that didn't have some keyboard or mech / ribbon issue .... and the TP2 that had the loose mech issue ... I finally decided I wanted to simplify all mechanical bits ... so I'm looking forward to the HD2. I like others think the 5 buttons + the rocker will allow aebutton+ control where needed in older games.
And the benefit to the Capacitive screen for me will be a smoother more responsive touch (I'm not commenting of accuracy ... because no one that hasn't used it can really comment ... and they certainly can't comment on what it maybe like if and when the HTC Stylus comes out ... if it does) .... and it should also be less reflective ... and therefore clearer in different light conditions ... and it will have a harder surface ... which will (to me) feel better.
So in summary ... given TF3D or MS3.5 will cover most of the OS UI requirements ... as well as the front end to native apps which are touch optimised and most of the big apps I will use will be fine with their own UI ... I think the HD2 with it's display and external simplicity has hit the market at the right time and will in practise be more than fine for everyone happy with a device this size that doesn't need drawing apps on day one.
I also suspect that the internal 512M + a good fast 16 or 32 GB MicroSDHC will more than meet the requirements of the WM7 1 chassis .... and in a year or 18 months ... when I have itchy feet .... I will get a ROM from XDA .... that will rejuvinate the machine ... I can't say this for certain ... and no one at present can say it will or won't be a possibility ...
Mine is on order for Clove ... it is genuinely the first time I've been excited about a WM device since the TyTNII was announced ...
Moandal said:
Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!
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Maybe you should try it before drawing any conclusions?
Really interested in seeing how Opera performs on the HD2 and whether or not clicking links is difficult.
It's easy to tap small links on the iphone, why should it be difficult on the HD2? All this "it won't be possible to use because of the capacitive screen" debate is just FUD, IMO.
I didn't want to hijack the 'lack of stylus/capacitative screen' thread, but I currently have an original Tilt collecting dust while I've been using a borrowed iPhone 3G until something much better comes along (re: TP2, HD2, Droid??) etc
As mentioned in the other thread, one of the key differences between the iPhone and WinMo devices, is that iPhone developers knew they were developing for devices without styluses or d-pads or keyboards etc, so they suited the app for that experience.
With WinMo, there are so many great legacy applications (productivity and most notably games) that rely on a stylus and/or a dpad to successfully navigate and use the applications. I know from personal experience I was apt to use the stylus less and less on my Tilt because I was able to navigate menus quickly with the dpad etc when they were small.
I know the lack of d-pad is the new trend with a lot [most] WinMo devices and I was hoping someone could comment on that from a usability standpoint. I'm even thinking of simple games like Kevtris etc...I know for some games when you have an option to popup the onscreen keyboard that may alleviate some issues, but I know there are other games that go full screen and don't even remotely give that option...thoughts? Am I overlooking something here?
Thanks!
Don't know anything about Kevtris, but a lot of (if not most) games are unusable on Touch HD.
Apart from games, there are some situations when I miss a d-pad, usually in situations of scrolling through lists. Drop-down lists on web pages in Opera is an especially annoying example. In most other cases though there are arrow keys on the HTC keyboard, which do the job, but you only see half of the screen (the other one is occupied by the keyboard).
So, to summarize, lack of a d-pad is a problem sometimes, but on the other hand not a huge one really, and I wouldn't change my HD for anything but HD2, which also lacks one.
vangrieg said:
So, to summarize, lack of a d-pad is a problem sometimes, but on the other hand not a huge one really, and I wouldn't change my HD for anything but HD2, which also lacks one.
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quoted for truth ...
When I first began using smartphones, my first one, the HTC Hermes, had a D-Pad. I have to admit, I was addicted to it instantly.
It made everything so simple. Controlling music, scrolling, and notably J2ME apps/games all worked better with it. When I had upgraded to a Fuze, I lost the D-Pad, and did miss it really badly at first. However, over time, I eventually stopped caring so much for it.
The way I used my device had to be adjusted, but it was nothing so major. However, if there is one thing that is annoying about lack of D-Pad, it is that many J2ME apps/games simply didn't work well without it. I got over that because many J2ME apps/games didn't work well with a VGA/WVGA screen either. Still, it was a rather significant blow.
Would I like a D-Pad on all my devices? Yes, but I no longer view it as necessary.
Thanks for the replies guys- it sounds like the consensus is that there is no good 'workaround', and that it's a legitimate issue, but in general the benefits/features of the new device outweigh those cons.
For lack of D-pad on games, someone here on xda has developed a software to use the accelerometer to send the d-pad buttons (not just for games actually).
I think's it's called gpad or something.
The software is still being developed but it allowed me to play worms on a device without d-pad.
There might be other software, anyone else found anything?
If we support developments like that, we can actually eliminate the 'worry' of not having a d-pad, and still enjoy our games, with more fun actually!
Yep, Virtual D-Pad v0.9 is the future way to go...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466002
galaxys said:
Yep, Virtual D-Pad v0.9 is the future way to go...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466002
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Awesome! This is why I love all the guys here!
hello, every body! (first post!)
great to see all the work done on this forum.
would be interested in HTC HD2, but lack of pad is really annoying. Lots of app need one, just for example navigate in calendar (agenda fusion for me.)
Could it be a solution to write a virtual keybord with ONLY the 4 arrows and an OK button? (and no others letters, to gain display space)
i am definitively not a developper, can't do anything about coding, sadly.
excuse me for my bad english, btw.
1otherfred
shouldnt be that hard, you have everything already, just rip out the arrows and ok button and replace them, or make new ones... unfortunatly im no coder, but maybe I can play around in photoshop/paint
I have developpid one, based on fingerkeyboard.
you can find it here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=483218