Database Users

For Jasjar buyers

I have been watching this forum for a while to decide upon buying the device.
I am more into data centric rather than phone centric and so my bet is on buying jasjar.
In couple of weeks the price came down to 950$ in expansys usa.
So ready to buy..
But i check this site http://www.expansys-usa.com/forumthread.asp?code=119353&thread=42
and now i am backing off and in dilemma in buying.
Share your thoughts please..
Also wondering the same memory issue should be there for K-jam also right ?
But why no one is discussing this critical issue over here as everyone are discussing only on cosmetic front...
Please pass on your feedback to the new buyers to decide

Link doesn't work.

rilot said:
Link doesn't work.
Click to expand...
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Link Updated. Thank you.

Having read that thread I can say that I don't agree with them.
They are correct that you can rapidly run out of memory but if you actually close applications when not using them, there is no problem. As far as the storage space goes, I have a 1GB SD card and install most apps and games on to it. Again, a non issue for me.
TBH it just sounds like a bunch of people thinking that the JASJAR would be the second coming of our lord Jesus Christ. When they open the box and find it's just a PDA with the usual PDA shotcomings they get upset.

I also disagree with most of the posters there (very strongly).
Had my MDA PRO for nearly a week - the 512MB MINI-SD card that comes free with it totally and utterly voids the storage space "issue" that they are whining about, and the application memory "issue" has been present for all Pocket PC's that ever existed. Easily solved by a multitude of freeware applications which allow you to close running apps easily.
You try keeping your home desktop PC on 24/7 without ever closing any applications you use on it, I give it 2-3 days before it grinds almost to a halt (unless you have more than 2GB of RAM).
Morale? Much ado about absolutely nothing. :lol:

If it was like the second coming of Jesus it would have 250Gb hard drive, we pay the same amount as a current laptop and still the memory is hasn't changed much from the PDA's of 3years ago, I can't understand this when memory has become incrediably cheaper over that period. HTC are treating us like the brown stuff that is a waste product of our bodies, someone needs to give them a wake up shower with there own waste product.

storage
As I said in other posts, and on club i-mate I even wrote to HTC, and they replied saying that they take what I say seriously, and this is:
Dear Maggie,
Thank you for responding.
I regret being an impulsive buyer, because I might not have bought the Jasjar/Universal.
That being said, I think you oem HTC let us badly down by thinking for us instead of responding to market demands.
Nowadays people want more storage, more memory, more functionality at a reasonable price, u can see my wish list in the usb hosting thread in club-imate support, but at the minimum HTC should have put in 128 MB memory and 256 MB rom, to think that devices like the palm offer 4 GB storage means its not a fantasy.
Also robbing customers of the option for usb hosting is not nice (as said so nicely by a customer in my usb hosting thread - club-imate support), u dont decide what clients want, if its do-able still include it and give them the option not to use it if they dont want to.
I am not talking out of thin air, I used to be involved with consultancies that advise for industry.
I hope the next pda from HTC past the Jasjar/Universal will have learned from clients feeback.
Cheers
Nabil H
My wish list:
1. Extra rom storage like 4GB (palm now does it!)
2. A backup system like the one in Blue Angel
3. full USB hosting functionality, so we can use a usb mouse or external usb keyboard or usb mem sticks
4. vga out support so we can project on wide screen
5. firewire support
6. More memory...
- After all if this is to be a mini laptop, let us have the full monty then, instead of baby face gizmos
Their (HTC) answer:
Hi, Nabil,
Thanks for your kindly feedback for HTC products and we will take it seriously.
Regards,
Maggie Cheng
PR/HTC

More memory?
mackaby007 said:
Last night I installed the latest ROM from i-mate (my first ROM update ever)...boy was I nervous, but very cautious.
All went smoothly without glitches! Everything seemed fine all day, no hiccups or soft-resets needed. So I thought I'd 'stress-test' the jasjar a bit. So far, I have the following only installed:
Spb Pocket Plus 3.0.1
CA eTrust Antivirus for Pocket PC
DigYs Billiard Master 2
TCPMP The Core Media Player
Resco Radio (Streaming Internet Radio)
**All of the following are currently running:
Wi-Fi is on and active (streaming music and surfing web simultaneously)
Contacts
Internet Explorer (using Wi-Fi)
Word Mobile
Pictures & Videos (Photo slideshow)
Spb Pocket Plus 3.0.1
TCPMP The Core Media Player
Resco Radio (Streaming Internet Radio)
Using my memory indicator on Spb, it reads: 3.8 or 7% available!!!
Is it just me, or isn't this pretty good, considering how many apps are running?
System performance has not degraded either. Just as slow as ever!!! But not any slower!
Whilst typing this, I have had an increase in memory, up to 5%! Everything is still running; movie in one application with sound and streaming music at the same time. Forgive me, I'm going on, but there seems to be more to this picture than, either we know, or we are talking about. The Jasjar is performing fine for what it is and maybe because of it's feature set, we have all expected too much from it. It does actually deliver, albeit not as fast as we'd expect given the speed of well established WM2003SE devices.
Your feedback on this will be greatly appreciated, as I am still somewhat confused as to why there was so little memory installed on the Universal in the first place.
All in all, the ROM update/upgrade, so far, seems to be more stable. But then it is still early days.
mackaby007
ROM version: 1.13.53. WWE
Radio version: 1.03.01
Protocol version:42.36.P8
ExtROM version: 1.13.137 WWE
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JJ Users: What ever the software issue, i guess that can be solved by updates right? Please confirm
But do you see any hardware related issues that is frustrating apart from Nabil's wish list.

sick of waiting Alternative found and bought

flybook A33i it does most things the shift can do with enougth funds left (got one with extras for a bargain price) to keep my athena or artemis if i choose so i dont lose gps or i might just get a bt gps receiver but this was a bargain it even makes phone calls out of the box

Agreed , I am sick of waiiting ! and more to the point - since waiting for the Shift , which I was DEFINATELY going to buy , even though I had just bought an Ameo, I have bought two similar devices
I bought an Advent U1a - which is the same as a Tabletkiosk i7209 , I have uprgraded the ram to 2GB and the thing absolutely flies now ! I am using it with a Hawaei E220 USB modem , and a tiny little usb keyboard
Also , I have an Asus EEE PC ,
I paid £199 (!!) for the U1A (plus £30 for the RAM and £20 for the keyboard ) - I also paid £99 for the USB modem , which gives me HSDPA - so lets say £350 for a device that may not look as pretty as the Shift , But I'd bet it outperforms it !
And then there is the EEE PC , OK , pitifull amount of storage (4GB) - but I have an 8GB SD card - £220
Having enjoyed these two for a good few weeks ( months , in the case of the Advent) - I really wouldn't be able to justify the huge cost of the Shift anymore - and beleive me , I am not normally one to 'cop out' of these things on the basis of price
If the Shift had been available 6 months ago , I would have bought one - no question !
But for me it is too late !

Battery Time
I am looking for a device with a loooong battery time. If the shift could run a full Windows Mobile there would be no alternative (with possibillity to switch to full windows that is).
So, I will still wait for the shift, and then wait some more untill someone can get full WM to run on it.
Unless one of you know a nice UMPC that has a battery life of about 5 hours? Because that would just do for me.
greetz,
Pfeffa-rah

It is my understanding that the shift does run full Windows mobile 6. Atleast thats what i saw on engadget when the guy from australia or wherever tested it.

Hi, with Shift and Ameo you can make Phone calls too, is this also possible with the other devices you mentioned?
Advent U1a
Flybook
Asus EEE-PC

correct the shift runs full wm6. i have tooked the latest htc shift's snapvue TODAY SCREEN(caps to enphasize its just a plugin not a whole interference) plugin yes its just plugin that limits the wm6 and put it on my athena and i had a full replica snapvue interface.
this is what happens with the snapvue plugin:
there is a exe that is in startup that hides that title bar.
snapvue.tsk is executed during customizations/first start and that give it black bars top and bottom
reg edit is done that removes the text and regular softkeys and makes them go to a dummy app that does nothing so if u click that area nothing happens.
snavue's dll hides the start menu and makes sure not even hard buttons(atleast not the athenas) bring it up.
snapvue is made to be the only today screen plugin to show so it is full screen.
in windows folder there is a folder created that is called settings and the settings button in snapvue goes to that folder so u can see most of ur regular settings that u would have access to if u had full start menu. this is done via apps like phone link, alarm, etc being put into windows folder and links to them in the settings folder.
i believe that is everything. remove the exe from startup and u have the title bar back. change softkeys back to calendar and contacts and those are back. remove/replace dll for snapvue and ull have startmenu back.
ull then have windows live, media player, connection setup and rest of the regular windows mobie 6 apps back minus all the new htc apps. snapvue and connection setup are only htc apps i saw in the shift rom.
the shift does have a full wm6 with qualcomm 7200. just needs to be unhidden.
now the question is why hide the rest of wm6. my guess is that since vista is there it has all the apps of wm6 like media player, internet explorer, etc... but in their desktop full version so why have the wm6 versions there 2. on the other hand wm6 uses less power than vista so we'll have to re enable all those again.

I can confirm all this as I've unlocked it in a december version. Pocket informant install just fine on it.

PAPPL said:
Hi, with Shift and Ameo you can make Phone calls too, is this also possible with the other devices you mentioned?
Advent U1a
Flybook
Asus EEE-PC
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In a VOIP Kind of way - then yes , Skype works fine , Plus it is easy to send SMS's on the network the standard way

Flybook does everything a mobile can do its a fantastic machine.........,

spzero said:
Flybook does everything a mobile can do its a fantastic machine.........,
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Click to collapse
I have one, it rocks

Pawel062 said:
correct the shift runs full wm6. i have tooked the latest htc shift's snapvue TODAY SCREEN(caps to enphasize its just a plugin not a whole interference) plugin yes its just plugin that limits the wm6 and put it on my athena and i had a full replica snapvue interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is great news That makes it worth waiting a bit more.
b.t.w. Will Pocket Office be in there too?
greetz,
Pfeffa-rah

spzero said:
Flybook does everything a mobile can do its a fantastic machine.........,
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Click to collapse
Well, I'm afraid I have to disagree.
I own the Flybook V33i for some while now and always it is a nice piece of hardware, it isn't even close to what I expected.
If you have the money, go for the Flybook V5 instead. Battery life is almost the same but you get the power of a dualcore processor.
I also own a Samsung Q1 Ultra Baron (UMTS/HSDPA), nice piece of hardware too, updated from Windows XP Tablet to Vista Ultimate (better touchscreen support) and added another Gig of RAM to the already available 1GB RAM, resulting in a pretty decent performance with 2GB RAM and the Intel 9xx GPU. The Intel Stealey processor with it's slow 800 MHz is no real performer, I have huge problems running iTunes DRM protected TV shows/movies, the stuttering is always present (and yes, I already tweaked a couple of things).
My latest acquisition is a OQO e2, 1GB RAM, 32GB SSD, HSDPA with Vista Business, a very impressive piece of hardware, you can't even imagine how small this thing is, most people think this is an old Pocket PC when they see me pulling it out of my jacket's pocket.
Unfortunately the performance isn't that great, 1GB RAM are not really enough for Windows Vista and the WiFi/WWAN reception isn't the best either but it works pretty well, no real chance with iTunes videos despite the 1.6 GHz processor speed (VIA sucks big time!) but otherwise the performance is good enough to keep you going. The 32GB SSD is a MUST since the faster transfer(mostly reading) times enhance performance a lot and somehow "cover" the slow CPU/GPU performance. With 2GB RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo ULV processor and a 64GB SSD(available soon from OQO), this would be my dream machine but unfortunately the OQO engineers seem to have different priorities. I still have high hopes getting the Sony UX next generation with the specs I was hoping for but right now, I can actually only recommend the Flybook V5, battery life however is not really that great.
I had the Flybook A33i for a week and returned it, it wasn't the performance/weight/size package I was looking for. The V33i is definetely a huge step forward but the most decent performance you can get from Dialogue is the V5, highly recommended.

Why Shift if you already have an Athena?

I thought I would like to open a new thread for Athena and Shift comparsion. So the information would be more organized. For those who own both Shift and Athena, please your feedback highly appreciated. Anything at all, you regret your shift, or what you don't like about shift? or you love your shift until you want to let your Athena go?
@Wu5262 I thought you mention that you will never consider the Shift?
Thank you in Advance
I would mention what I like about Athena:
I'm using my Athena pretty much 12x7. All my data is pretty much synchronized to my laptop. I could get an instant on with Athena which I appreciate a lot. I could open many word documents with windows mobile 6 with high responsiveness. Snappiness is great when you need to retrieve any information quickly from time to time. I always keep my Athena in my pocket(Using Hugo Boss Dress Pant fit nicely) where ever I go even to Universal Studio until my Athena Dented from the rides(Duh!). It's got Dictionary for Business, Medical, and English, which I find to be very helpful for day to day basis. I have PocketBreeze to organize all my tasks and calendar at the very front of today's screen. That's the first thing in the morning that i would look at when I just turn on my Athena to organize the rest of my day. A Kick Ass Pocket Informant. I also have all my important documents and data on the laptop being stored in the Athena microdrives. Excellent battery life with USB Based car charger which is a big plus convenience. Opera lets me browse through many websites with a breeze. A big high quality 5 inch screen that doesn't strain my eyes. I own Thinkpad T60 and IMO the screen in Athena is better. I could still get fatigue with Thinkpad's screen, not sure why. All I need out of Athena is an even bigger, faster storage, and faster processor system. Speed is my upmost number one priority. My boss often calls me for an information and therefore I need to provide him the soonest or ELSE.
Minor Shortcomings: Slow Charging
Shift is tempting, but I'm afraid I may regret my purchase. I don't have the luxury to try out this baby before buying.

great post, i was thinking the same. at first there was the attraction to the shift, but now, i could get the blu ray burner vaio from comet for a shift. and keep my athena...
says it all really
Rory

PPC may do 80% of daily application, it's necessary to do some bank, AUTOCAD, and some others application under winxp when you are outside, I think winxp is enough, no need Vista.

only reason to use shift is for the vista apps that cant be found on wm.

It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading your post you want to compare the WM6 side. The Vista side of the shift was supposed to be more of bonus for me to make it even more usefull. I had mistakenly thought shift's WM side would be as powerful as the x7501 right out of the box. I was very much mistaken. Till a cooked rom comes out for the shift it has many short coming compared to the x7501 on the WM side. No GPS, limited storage space and no camera functions. No external buttons that work in slate mode. So currently there is no comparsion needed. If I was compare the devices assuming a cooked rom will give us these things here is my take.
I see two major pros for the shift over the advantage.
The biggest pro for the shift is the screen. Both the size and the color/brightness of the shift's screen is a big plus. The shift's screen is hands down nicer screen. The useable shift screen size on the WM side is sligthly bigger than the entire x7501 device. The bigger sceen makes using your finger to navigate even better. It is also a boon for reading emails or ebooks. The second is the keyboard. The keyboard on the shift is way better than the x7501. It is bigger and has great feedback. It is a joy to type out an email mesage on the WM6 side of the shift compared to the x7501.
The biggest pros for the x7501 over the shift is it size ???
I know I just said the same thing about shift. But when you carry the x7501 around it is small enough to put in coat or jacket pocket and it form factor makes it look likea small book. Compare that to the "man bag" the shift is carried around in. The shift is much bigger and heaver to drag around. The shift dose not fit into any pockets of any jacket I own, and even if it did it is to heavy would weight down on that side of your jacket. The other pro of the x7501 over shift is its storage choices having the bigger internal memory, a mini sd card, and a hardrive. That is just sweet! Even after the shift rom is cooked it never be able to compete with x7501 in this area. I worry that I will always be wanting in this area with my shift.
You know I could go round and round with pros and cons both devices are nice, sexy looking and have features that other does not have. I don't know if I will ever be 100% happy with either now that I have both. I think I will have to hold on to both and visit this again after a cooked rom comes out for the shift. Till then I will probably keep switching back and forth and wishing that I took other device with me instead after a while.
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now

stormforger said:
It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading ....
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now
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Click to collapse
shift should i think be bought for the reason of u wanting a umpc. the wm side is not so good right now. shift is a nice device but has a bit too many shortcomings out of the box. it will be nice once modded. remind me a bit of the iphone

Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything

stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe yea thats a big plus.

stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
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Click to collapse
Yes you are very right, the first time I bought my Athena, I was shocked on how slow the battery charging especially out of a USB port. Not sure if Advantage 7510 would improve considerably.

i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.

wu5262 said:
i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep. the community is always the key. u have the people from the athena forums here now working on the shift and u also have pof here. the shift will be a nice device once we are done with it.

HTC Shift Vs HTC Athena
the athena is a very good device. I bought the Shift mainly just for fun. In fact u can do most things on the athena. The curve of owning a HTC Shift goes like this. During the first few hours it was really fun. I was quite amazed with the quality and the keyboard. After playing for awhile then i realize the Winmo is far inferior to Athena. i cannot install all my applications into it as the internal memory is so small. Not only that it cannot read the SD card. I read somewhere in this forum that there is no way to connect to the sd card as there are no wires attaching to it. After that I left it at home. Without bothering to play with it. After a week I started reading this forum again and some smart guy suggested to remove the finger recoginition security. I did it and wow, the speed is now much faster and acceptable. I started removing all those applications I don't need such as Origami and so on. I tweaked around with the battery settings as well. Now I am beginning to like it again as I have longer battery life and a faster machine. One thing is that I don't understand is why HTC only puts 64mb ram into this. Are they thinking of launching a HTC Shift 2 with 128mb ram. And a longer battery life. I think this is a way they milk the consumers for more money..

Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.

skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all

Yeah i have an athena a phone viewty and a ASUS eee so this could replace all 3 or maybe just the eee and athena its a convergence device it does what it says on the tin but is only average at each point but good enougth i think

skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for me, I was expecing Shift to be a superb WM Phone with Vista as a bonus. WM with a nice huge screen and a nice keyboard to work on. I already own Thinkpad T60 with 3GB RAM, 4GB Readyboost, fast little machine.
I'm not expecting the Vista in Shift to replace my laptop knowing that it's only got 20GB free storage to work on and 1GB RAM(For VISTA just INSANE).
Sure it would be nice to replace Athena and Thinkpad Laptop with Shift. But I will hold my breath on that.

koala996 said:
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.

skin57 said:
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....

koala996 said:
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.

skin57 said:
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have the Shift yet.. so I can't test it myself.. but I have never heard about it before (maybe because I have never heard about someone rebooting WM when Vista was launched).
It will be harder .. yes .. but we will try our best to make it work in both sides !

No Wlan Connection

Hello - I just got my Shift yesterday. German Edition.
It works well. The only Thing is I do not get the WLAN to work.
I have 2 WLAN stations with G and N standard activated but I do not get a
connection. Certainly I enabled the WLAN in Vista with the THC Tool.
I also tried to do settings in the device driver.
But Windows Vista still does not find any network ( WLAN ).
EDGE is working when tunred on.
PLEASE HELP - OTHERWISE I SEND IT BACK.
Thank you in advance
Marcus

Send it back (sorry, couldn't help myself)

Hi Markus,
I had the "same" problem. I could not get a connection with my Netgear Router. Then I tried another one from t-mobile, what is its name? Speedport or something and everything works nicely.
So go somewhere and try a different router. Maybe it helps.
S.

I'm using a cheap old modem/router and it works 100%...I would try and different router too borrowed from a friend. You need to keep the Shift

Hello
So I decided to send the Shift back.
I am not willing gaming around with wlan. I spent about 6 hours.
WLAN ist a standard for years and my routers are absolutly standrd.
Why should I buy a new router while I am having some of the best on the market which work with all notebooks and computer and also iphone + htc kaiser ?
I Think they used a very damn wlan crad. Why not using a intel wlan ?
All in all the testing of the shift was funny. A nice UMPC with a very lack of having a Display showing 1024x600 Pixel. The 800x480 are useless.
So here I end my writing.
Much more fun - I wait for the next revision with Intel ATOM CPU.

Hard to know if it was your wlan or the Shift, or you? What is clear is the Shift isn't for you, because experience tells me if you had the issue above and you liked your Shift then you would have invested the time in finding a solution...
1024 x 600 is fine if you have microscopes for eyes...I have connected with about 7 wlans so far, without issue....Intel Atom CPU, might be good, who knows, but might the same too - we are talking low voltage here so there will still be limitations - Intel does not mean perfect by any means.
What we really need for this market is a more suitable OS, not beefed up hardward.

Hello - sorry you are wrong with me
I own even 2 more Samsung UMPCs and are familiar with a lot of mobile phones and devices ( it is my job).
We live in the 2008 and WLAN is a world wide standard.
A device with wlan has just to work.
Also I invested about 8 hours testing with drivers.
I am also windows certified on vista.
Even with this knowledge I did only get a connection to a neigbors wlan.
I own an apple aitport express configured as g+n
and an AVM 7270 with B+G configured.
The last 12 month I tested about 87 notebooks and about 40 mobile phones. All did work at once. Also many HTC devices.
The Shift did now.
Also I own a Sony mini Computer with a 5 Zoll Display and it is just better than the HTC - 800x480 is not made for vista.
Even the Shift startup Windows are not displayed correctly.
Sorry - it is very easy to read on a 1024x768 Display.
I think you just did not see a good one yet.
Vista also can configure the fonts so that is very good to read.
About the CPU - if you once see an AMTOM CPU you will never post something like you did. It is just amazin. I had one to test here.
I think the Shift is a good beta device - last year it woud have been a wow, but it was just released in germany and it is dissapointing.
Sorry !
Best reagrds
As I told you - I wait for Release 2 in some month

Hey man, I'm not upset or anything by your post, hope you aren't with mine, because I didn't intend that
I don't have access to the wonderful things that you do by the sounds of it, so if I have a device that has a error with something I tend to stick with it until I find a solution - I don't really have any other choice. So, when my Shift didn't pick up 3G properly I stuck by and tweaked it until it did. Sorry if I sounded insensitive - I know what it's like for something to not work...very frustrating.
Re the screen - I have seen the hi def wonders out there, and I've seen the blunders like OQO01 (dim and sorta blurry)...I actually like the Shift resolution for day to day use, but I guess if it had the option to support true 1024*768 then it would be better suited to everyone. I think you're right, the next version will most likely have better resolution...
OK, I will keep an open mind about the Atom...maybe it can answer our performance issues for these UMPC's (it's clear Via isn't up to the task either at present), although I will stick with my preference for the OS manufacturers to provide a better option than Vista, or at least a different "type" of Vista. XP is perfectly adequate and would probably fly on this thing esp with a gig of RAM....
I didn't realise until recently the Shift had been announced for so long...so even with relatively new eyes on it, it answered many of my needs - especially the pocket PC side...I paid $1400 for a Jornada 720 when they first came out, and so this device with a PC side, and connectivity at $2000 seems like a fair price. It's all dependant on ones points of relativity I guess.
Anyways, all the best, and I hope you find the right device for you...cheers

Seeking advice of whether or not to buy a Shift

I am interested in a new latop and have been doing quite a lot of research on the Shift. Voice call functionality is probably the only thing holding me back from making a definite decision right now. I have been purusing about and have come across a few questions as post dates seem intermintent on whether or not a few of the things I am looking for will come true. So if members could give me a point of view on to wait or not, or even to look at another device.
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
3.) Is there any reasons why any of you can personally think of why I should seek another UMPC device or small laptop when compared to the Shift. I am going to be using it mostly for travel, media functions (mp3/movies), and of course web browsing/downloading. Things I am worried about... battery life, and never being able to make phone calls, and not having a touch screen. Owning a Tilt I am spoiled to that aspect
4.) Is the range of the bluetooth going to be greater than 33'? I know some types of bluetooth headsets can go much further distances, but am unsure if that is for media only or if that will be an option for voice call for the Shift as well.
5.) I currently have a Tilt running many programs such a mobile shell, poket weather, AT&T Navigator, and things along those lines. What is the likely-hood that I will be able to use such programs on the unlocked side of WM for the Shift. Or is that really going to depend a lot on the software programs themselves?
I have more questions, but have yet to search for the answers before posting, so I will be back soon.
Thank you for all your help and input in advance!
SKy

skyfox99 said:
I am interested in a new latop and have been doing quite a lot of research on the Shift. Voice call functionality is probably the only thing holding me back from making a definite decision right now. I have been purusing about and have come across a few questions as post dates seem intermintent on whether or not a few of the things I am looking for will come true. So if members could give me a point of view on to wait or not, or even to look at another device.
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
3.) Is there any reasons why any of you can personally think of why I should seek another UMPC device or small laptop when compared to the Shift. I am going to be using it mostly for travel, media functions (mp3/movies), and of course web browsing/downloading. Things I am worried about... battery life, and never being able to make phone calls, and not having a touch screen. Owning a Tilt I am spoiled to that aspect
4.) Is the range of the bluetooth going to be greater than 33'? I know some types of bluetooth headsets can go much further distances, but am unsure if that is for media only or if that will be an option for voice call for the Shift as well.
5.) I currently have a Tilt running many programs such a mobile shell, poket weather, AT&T Navigator, and things along those lines. What is the likely-hood that I will be able to use such programs on the unlocked side of WM for the Shift. Or is that really going to depend a lot on the software programs themselves?
I have more questions, but have yet to search for the answers before posting, so I will be back soon.
Thank you for all your help and input in advance!
SKy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Dont get you hopes up, in fact i dont think we ever get all these functions that some say they are working on. why bother? what do you relly want that big acphone fore?
2. see 1.
3. it is a machine with limited power great for surfing bad for alot else
4. have only used a bluetooth mouse works great, havnt used it far from away lol
5. the stoage is wery limired on the shift, no room for alot of apps

skyfox99 said:
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is between "maybe" and "don't get your hopes up": requires security unlocking the device and changing some NV items in radio, but I'm not sure if the microphone is connected on the SnapVUE side. Bluetooth is definitely not connected, so it won't be possible to call through a headset.
skyfox99 said:
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM cooking is imminent, some of us are already using cooked ROMs.

I use mine for surfing (3G is great), documents, email and the odd movie. It won't cope with much else, which is fine because that's all I want it for. And why would you want voice calling on this thing? Bizarre, but each to their own.
The big thing is it is tiny...and well connected...a bit like Kate Moss

I appreciate the feedback. I was hoping for voice call via 1.2 i suppose for 300' range so i could just walk around with a headset on with the Shift at my desk at work. I am guessing i was expecting a little too much. I really am just looking for a touchscreen laptop that isn't too big and isn't too expensive. Any ideas for a computer along those lines?

If you at work, then you should have internet connection. Some telecom operators offer IP telephony. I am using this on Shift with even better functionality than mobile phone and with BT headset. It is possible to use also Skype for example. You can use the functionality even in move in wifi networks or mobile networks with flat rate package. Of course, 3G networks preferred.

shift
personally id buy which is what im going to do, but since it has windows mobile and a sd slot, it wouldnt be hard for some one copy software from another phone and since it has nothing to do with screen capabilities of processor speed im sure it woul be compatibal from almost any device because it is just a drive for hardware, bluetooth is not so much a hardware issue more sofware which once sd slot made usable might be ale to achive easyer when size is no matter, to addd extra options to handler or driver for blue tooth whichever.. besides if u like videos im sure the screen is somewhat high def being that its 16 million colors (not sure dont have it yet) and most computer screens are like 232k colors it might be like 720p or something not sure i dont know how many colors they can display and whatever but it'll make videos amazing compared to 64k colors of other phones, and some people have developed full xp drivers for it so might get lucky and be abl to get the ultamit device for embedded programing being you coul have embedded on a device which you could make program then test with or without touch screen very fastly and id only take a minute to switch back to fix errors...

Here in the states VOIP on a mobile phone really isn't there just yet, our networks are too slow on 3g I think. Although I don't really know much about it. Is skype VOIP to VOIP only, or can you call any phone number? I don't really want too much of a hassle having to hack this thing to get it to do what I want. I am actually getting tired of doing all that for now after flashing rom after rom to my tilt to get it to work the way I want. As is now I am unable to connect to my exchange server at work and am unsure as to what the problem is and really just want something to work ideally out of the box, but I know that won't happen.

dinscurge said:
personally id buy which is what im going to do, but since it has windows mobile and a sd slot, it wouldnt be hard for some one copy software from another phone and since it has nothing to do with screen capabilities of processor speed im sure it woul be compatibal from almost any device because it is just a drive for hardware, bluetooth is not so much a hardware issue more sofware which once sd slot made usable might be ale to achive easyer when size is no matter, to addd extra options to handler or driver for blue tooth whichever.. besides if u like videos im sure the screen is somewhat high def being that its 16 million colors (not sure dont have it yet) and most computer screens are like 232k colors it might be like 720p or something not sure i dont know how many colors they can display and whatever but it'll make videos amazing compared to 64k colors of other phones, and some people have developed full xp drivers for it so might get lucky and be abl to get the ultamit device for embedded programing being you coul have embedded on a device which you could make program then test with or without touch screen very fastly and id only take a minute to switch back to fix errors...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's amazing - one sentence....

Personally I would strongly advise you against buying this device. FOr the price you could get a small convertible tablet PC that would do far, far, far more than the Shift ever will. I bought a Fujitsu t2010 for $1100 US. I then spent $200 at NewEgg buying stuff to upgrade and i now have, for the same price as a shift ($1300):
12.1" active digitizer, no comparison to a passive digitizer (touchscreen) for taking notes, drawing, or anything else. active is 100x better
4GB RAm
250gb SATA HDD
1.2ghz ULV Dual Core cpu
WiFi/BT
5 HOUR BATTERY LIFE RUNNING VISTA WITH STANDARD BATTERY
TOTAL WEIGHT 3lbs
3g pc card modem- lets me use 3G data AND make phone calls AND send sms, slips into PC card slot and has retractable antenna
BT headset
Nice screen protector
nice webcam
Soooo, for what I spent on my Fuji I could have a little shift that has a crappier screen, shorter battery life, crippled hardware, etc. Why would anyone do that? Don't like a 12.1"? No problem, get a Fujitsu U810 (5" screen, $800), or a Fujitsu p1620 ($9", about $100 more thanthe shift). Don't like the Fuji's? OK, google convertible tablet and you'll get a ton of various little machines that can outperform the shift with a similar form-factor.
I know that there are some people who love thier Shift, and i am not trying to bash them. I just think that the Shift is an INCREDIBLY niche product and that most users would be much happier with a convertible tablet that is the same price, better battery ,processor,screen,etc. Some of the sacrifices we make in mobile devices is for the phone functionality, and if shift can't (and most likely won't ever) do that, why make those sacrifices? Especially when adding a cheap peice of hardware to a much more powerful platform (tablet pc) gives you everything you need?

am sorry but i have to said
no i have many proplem then i sale it
and buy sony ux37gn its more powerfull than the shift
and with no proplem " made in japan "
the only proplem is the price

Buy one. They are fantastic!

scopy60 said:
buy sony ux37gn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have much smaller display, are bulky and have no Windows Mobile (ARM) subsystem.

devictoria said:
They have much smaller display, are bulky and have no Windows Mobile (ARM) subsystem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't think they even have built in 3G do they?

I Like Shift!
FWIW, I really like my Shift....
Didn't buy it to be a computing powerhouse, but a take with me everywhere device.
I like the flexibility to use it as a slate (tablet), a laptop, or a slider.
Overall, works great...

mlalahoi said:
Personally I would strongly advise you against buying this device.
Soooo, for what I spent on my Fuji I could have a little shift that has a crappier screen, shorter battery life, crippled hardware, etc. Why would anyone do that? Don't like a 12.1"? No problem, get a Fujitsu U810 (5" screen, $800), or a Fujitsu p1620 ($9", about $100 more thanthe shift). Don't like the Fuji's? OK, google convertible tablet and you'll get a ton of various little machines that can outperform the shift with a similar form-factor.
I you need?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but cannot buy Fujitsu P1620 in Holland for some reason. Not happy with my Shift at all!
Huib

ArchiMark said:
FWIW, I really like my Shift....
Didn't buy it to be a computing powerhouse, but a take with me everywhere device.
I like the flexibility to use it as a slate (tablet), a laptop, or a slider.
Overall, works great...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too - it seems those that aren't happy really should have asked what they really wanted first up. I don't find performance an issue - battery life is OK for surfing etc - it's not an 8 hour music/video player though, and not meant to be. That's what iPod's etc are for. In my case, what my HX4700 is for. To me the WM6 with keyboard and 3G is extremely valuable - I am involved in music when not working and I can keep an eye on those related emails during the day (cannot log into mail from work), respond where necessary etc. No boot ups. If something needs more, or a big file attached, then I can boot to Vista.
Office 2003 is the way to go tho. 2007 is like Vista - bulky and slow.
I suspect the sales pitch of the Shift may have led people to believe it was going to be something other than what it is. I did the homework first, so knew what I was getting, especially around performance. Anyways, not sure whether HTC are actually going to sell many of these given the late arrival, seemingly little support (drivers, XP etc) and some polarised view points on it.

HTC SHIFT Rocks ....
for those un-happy with shift i would say u guys never really understood the essence of this device ... according to me this device is closest to the ideal device for a mobile person that HTC could make keeping in view today's technology and price limitations ...
I travel a lot very frequently and often all of a sudden need to spend nights over at a new place etc... but with shift along i am relieved of the hastles i used to face earlier ... its size is just ideal for it to be carried around everywhere and its functunality is well thought off ... and all the more important is that after liberation it gives u the power of two devices in one! A quick use WM side and a full fleged windows vista to substitute ur laptop for "work related" needs.
I normally use the WM interface when i am really mobile or dont need to access too much stuff.. or just need to use skype to chat with a supplier, etc ... but when i am either back in my car or in the hotel room or when i have some spare time or when i need to access bank website (our bank websites dont open in WM due to security concerns) ... I use the VISTA side ...
There are some annoyances off and on like - i cant multitask as well i can on my PC etc .. but those were known to me before i shelled out cash for this device.. the keyboard is smalll but what better u think HTC could have stuffed in such a device ...??? It's usable and its pretty neat too .. i have used it for typing long letters and reports with absolutely no problem ... no doubt u have type with a finger but its comfy once u get the hang of it! Also i can tell u with my practical experience that someone who's gonna shift after using a very powerful computer will feel it to be a bit slow but we have to understand these limitations to bring the best out of this device! So buy a HTC Shift , but plz be a bit just a bit patient while using it and it will be ur friend in need.
Keeping my kind of a multitasked life style in view (a medical doctor, a business man, a GPS System's Consultant, etc) - i would suggest u all to buy a Case Logic HDC-2 case ... it fits the shift well in it's original cover, fits in its charger, usb hub, a portable laser mouse, my stationary kit, my digital camera, a portable DVD writer, my mobile travel charger, candys to give me instant energy if reqd. and small nit bits like my 3 types of visiting cards, etc.). I normally carry the bag around with me in my car or on travel. Let the bag primarity lie in the car/hotel room as the case maybe and take only the shift in its leather case along while going for a meeting or to meet a client etc. and use the other bag contents as per need. But let me tell u that carrying this small kit has helped me out in so many conditions that i just cant thank HTC for making such a good device and to Case Logic for unkowingly creating such a good case to carry my stuff. (Case Logic HDC-2 is actually a HDD carrying case... but it fits the shift and it's accessories just right!) (see the pics)
For me carrying the shift in a harddisk carrying case gives me all the more comfort because i feel if a case is designed to protect a HDD, it can protect my Shift well!
And another thing: this bag fits perfectly and tightly in the space between any car's front seats ... so it stays there intact inspite of any bumps or pits on Indian Roads during the rainy season! ;-)

skyfox - did you have a bsquare powerhandheld once?

I am also planning to buy this machine. I need this device for simple, not so powerful development machine, where I can open up a text pad and run mysql on it. Can you run mysql on this machine and how responsive is running small dev mysql server there?